|
Meeting Minutes Monday, June 28, 2010 Chairman
Hartman opened the public hearing at 7:06 p.m. Others
present: Rich Stanley, Nancy Ladd, Paul Violette, Dick Fisher, Laura
Milliken, Tina Schirmer, Stephen Trostorff, Edith Daigle, Beverly
Langlais, Joyce Chagnon, Hoanne Hinnendael, Alice Chamberlin, Bill
Simpson, Jr., Linda Hartman, Kimberley Edelmann, Jerry Marsh, Trish
Mitchell, Bob Bowers, Rebecca Courser, Jill Fischman 1. ATV Public Hearing ( Continued
from June 8, 2010) Chairman Hartman asked the public if they
need a full explanation of what is being requested by the Boundtree ATV
Club. Hearing no response,
Chairman Hartman went on and quickly explained that there is
approximately 8 miles of trail that is being requested to be designated
as part of the Boundtree ATV Club trail system that would connect into
Hopkinton some of which runs over Class VI roads.
From the last meeting the Selectmen’s office has received
letters for and against the proposal as well as a petition from the
Boundtree ATV Club. On June
10th the Board of Selectmen and Town Administrator hiked out
to some of the areas to familiarize themselves.
Chairman Hartman explained during this meeting he will take
turns asking for comments that are in favor and not in favor and then
general opinions. Public Comments: Rich Stanley asked for a clarification and
understands the ATV club is coming before the Board of Selectmen to ask
permission to do something that is already being done.
He also understands that he can take his pick-up truck and drive
on any Class VI road as well as any other vehicle that is registered.
Chairman Hartman said the pick-up truck or other registered
vehicle is legal; by law ATVs driving on Class VI roads are not.
Mr. Stanley said look at the truck across the street which got
muddy somewhere and it wasn’t in downtown Warner.
He said as a member of the snowmobile club he has picked up
trash, washing machines and tires.
His point is the ATV club is self policing where the general
public is not. Mr. Stanley
does not see the harm of allowing an organization of caring outdoorsmen,
which is promoted in the State of NH, to go out into the woods and have
some fun. Nancy Ladd said one of her biggest
concerns is once a club has a published and known trail with legal
permission it becomes a red flag for her because it means people from
out of state can use the trails. They
may be people who are less invested in the local nature of the place,
people who do not know where the roads lead or which trails are legal
and as a past jeep enthusiastic she would not like to meet up with an
ATV coming the other way. She
is also concerned that ATVs can be driven by children who do not have a
license. Ms. Ladd is aware
that the Mink Hills have been earmarked a wildlife conservation and ATVs
can be very noisy and she does not see ATV use being compatible to the
other uses in the area and does not feel it would be wise to encourage
ATV use. Chairman Hartman asked what the age limits
are for driving an ATV. Paul
Violette explained children who are 12 years old can ride ATVs if they
pass the test with adult supervision until they are old enough to attend
drivers-education. Nancy
Ladd then asked if a 16 year old can ride unsupervised without a
license. The answer was no,
only with a valid drivers license. Alan Piroso said he wanted to correct some
things about ATVs, he said they are quieter than dirt bikes and
snowmobiles; he said he has seen more moose and deer on an ATV than
walking. Mr. Piroso also
said there are already people from out of town riding the trails and he
feels with a club on the trails the club will attempt to keep people
from going off of the trails by using signage.
The club will also keep on eye on things and are asking
permission legally. A resident named Jill Fischman, moved to
Warner from New York for the peace, quite and tranquility of the lakes
and habitat. Her main concern is about noise pollution and the effects the
ATVs will have on the habitat. Dick Fisher said back in the 1960s
snowmobiles went through the same ridicule and now there are established
clubs and are accepted. He feels the ATV Club is setting precedence and agrees that
you can’t stop the people that are riding in the Minks that are
tearing up the roads. He
said there is currently a vehicle parked across the street covered in
mud which probably came from the Minks; he feels those are the people
causing the problem. Mr. Fisher said having an organized club riding the trails
can help deter abuse of the trails.
Jim Zablocki said one of the dangers about
comparing ATVs to snowmobiles is that there is a buffer of snow so there
is less of an impact to the environment.
He also said the snowmobile clubs have built bridges over
sensitive wetlands; he asked if the ATV Club will have that same
opportunity because in the spring there is a lot more water.
Mr. Zablocki asked if ATVs are allowed on Class VI roads, is this
setting a precedent for the rest of the Class VI roads and does it mean
all Class VI roads are potentially part of the ATV system, he said the
long term impact needs to be considered. Chairman Hartman said the ATV club presented a similar
request 2 years ago, to have Class VI highways designated for ATV use
but for whatever reason the ATV club withdrew their request.
This time the ATV Club has presented a very specific request.
Steve Lindbloom said he does not like the
way the meeting was being run. Chairman
Hartman explained in the beginning of the meeting how he was going to
ask for public comments. Jerry Marsh said he owns an ATV and
recently learned that a couple of years ago there was a fire in the
Couchtown Road area that was inaccessible to the Fire Department; there
was someone available with an ATV that carried people into the woods to
put out the fire. Mr. Marsh
said another time in Hopkinton there was an elderly lady lost in the
woods and two ATV riders found her.
Mr. Marsh feels there are good reasons to have ATVs on the Class
VI roads. Lori Terwilliger lives in the Minks and
asked what is being proposed by the Club to protect the wetlands and the
crossings during mud season. Paul Violette said at this time there is
nothing being done, erosion just continues.
Mr. Violette also said there are skidder trucks going out to
logging sites on these roads and they do not always repair the roads as
they should be. He said the
Club has a trail system in Hopkinton and around Bear Pond; various
crossings have been built over streams.
The Club goes through the same process as anyone else and files
for permits with DES and other State agencies.
He said a Class VI road is a Town road and the Club would ask to
be able to help those roads by opening culverts that are now not even
workable and help maintain areas. Mr.
Violette said the average tire pressure in an ATV is 5 pounds, it’s a
soft ride compared to the skidders and four wheel drive pick-up trucks.
Mr. Violette also said the snowmobiles create more air pollution
than ATVs because most of them are 2 cycle, ATVs are 4 cycle.
The Clubs intention is to provide signage and they have found
most of the time people will stay on the trail if there is signage. Mr. Violette said having a club in the area will not only
heavily suggest that people ride in the manner they should ride and stay
where they should, the club will also watch the area.
Mr. Violette walked with the Selectmen; there was one wet area
where vehicles went around, it wasn’t ATVs because it was too narrow,
it was dirt bikes. Mr.
Violette said generally speaking the Club will act like responsible
people. ATVs are a recreational sport as well as a family sport. Nancy Martin owns land in the Mink Hills.
She and her husband purchased the land for peace and quiet; she
is fear- full that more motorized vehicles will make it noisier.
She is concerned about the impact of gasoline powered engines,
they have driven the horse back riders away not to mention the noise
pollution and the soil erosion gas powered vehicles create which also
have an impact on the streams and ponds.
Ms. Martin said the Mink Hills is 15,000 acres of un-fragmented
land; it is unique in central NH. It
provides wildlife corridors so that the animals can move easily across
long distances. Ms. Martin
would like to continue to live in harmony with the woodland creatures
that live in the Minks and not see any further contribution to the loss
of habitat which will happen with an ever increasing number of motorized
vehicles. Steve Lindbloom asked if the Board grants
permission to the ATV Club, is it revocable.
Chairman Hartman said by establishing a trial basis makes it
revocable and the Town Administrator added that even without a trial the
agreement is always revocable. Someone
spoke up and verified that under the State law the Board can suspend the
right anytime after a public hearing. Joanne Hinnendael asked if this could be
extended into Bradford because she lives on the edge of a Class VI road
that runs into Bradford. Also, it was said earlier that the Police, DPW and the Fire
Chief are in favor of the ATVs; if permission is granted Ms. Hinnendael
feels that in the future this decision could impact the Town’s budget.
Alice Chamberlin said if ATVs continue to
gain popularity, which is a fast growing industry, faster than
snowmobiles, and if Warner becomes a destination the impact will be seen
quicker and change the quality of life and the reason why people come
here. In her view ATV use
is fundamentally incompatible with hiking, wildlife viewing, and bike
riding in a way that snowmobiling isn’t.
The snowmobilers provided a great trail system, but a walk in the
woods does not require the use of an ATV trail.
Ms. Chamberlin hopes when the Board looks at the public use of
the Class VI roads that they will consider how to equitably distribute
the public benefits. She
does not feel that it is possible to combine these uses because she
feels they are fundamentally incompatible.
She said there are also options of looking at no motorized
vehicles on the Class VI roads. She does not feel a trial period will demonstrate long term
impacts to the Town. Ms.
Chamberlin also asked the Board if they have criteria that they will be
using to make their decision so there is a record on which to look upon
at the future impacts and what was wanted to achieve.
She feels without criteria it would be difficult to approve any
application that comes before the Board as well as difficulty in
revoking. Ms. Chamberlin
submitted a petition to the Board with over 100 signatures and hopes the
Board will consider from all the people who could not come to the
meeting or don’t care to speak out on this issue, that there is a lot
of concern and opposition to the application from the Boundtree ATV
Club. Trish Mitchell read a portion of a letter
from a neighbor which was submitted to the Board of Selectmen,
specifically the portion that speaks about the trial period.
If a trial period is
allowed information must be gathered and evaluated or it will not be a
true trial period. We wish
to suggest a number of items to be monitored if there is a trial period
including trash, parking, fires, off trail incursions, complaints,
personal injury emergencies, erosions, impacts to flora and fauna, water
quality degradation, hours of increased patrol by emergency personnel,
and noise. Her question to the Board was who will put together this
type of information, who is it going to be reported to, who is going to
decide there is violations, and who will decide if this should continue
or not. Alan Piroso who is in favor of ATV use on
the Class VI roads commented about the mud season.
He said Class VI roads are posted until May 15th and
the ATV trails are posted until they are dry.
About the traffic, he said there are two trail heads that are
advertised on the trail system and both are located in Hopkinton.
The trail the club has picked in Warner is not located near any
homes. He also feels it
would be better to have the club on the trails than not. Edith Daigle said she listened to the
presentation from Bountree ATV Club at the last meeting and was
impressed about the decreases of vandalism and off trail riding that the
club achieved in Hopkinton through gating and signage.
However, her understanding is that those trails are on private
land. She said projections
of similar results on Class VI roads are not realistic, she feels it is
more realistic to imagine that they will encounter a lot of regulations
and permitting requirements in order to build bridges on Town roads.
Ms. Daigle is also not sure if gating and signage would be
permitted on a Class VI road as they have on the private property in the
Town of Hopkinton. She also feels comparing the improvements seen on the
Hopkinton trails as the results expected to see by permitting ATVs on
the roads in the Mink Hills is like comparing apples to oranges.
Ms. Daigle said she lives next to one of the busiest snow mobile
trails in Warner and is happy to be able to make use of the well
maintained trails for recreational purposes year round, but the trail is
only used in the winter when the ground is frozen. Ms. Daigle feels a reduction in use should be considered for
the Mink Hills area and urges the Selectmen to reject the Boundtree ATV
Club’s request for permission to ride on Class VI roads as well as to
consider restricting activity on the Class VI roads in the Mink Hills. Nancy Ladd asked what the Town’s
responsibility is on the proposed Class VI roads if they are ruined or
washed out, would the Town be responsible for injuries if an ATV user
was injured because a big rock was in the road.
The Town Administrator explained that Class VI roads are posted
as non-maintained and they are used at an individuals own risk and by
granting permission the Town does not take on liability; there is a
recreational statute that protects the Town from liability.
The Town Administrator further explained as far as maintaining
roads, anyone who wants to do work on Class VI roads must ask permission
to do so; a Town cannot legally spend funds on a Class VI road.
Robert Bower owns property on a Class VI
road and said what the Town Administrator said is essentially true,
however, if the Selectmen approve the use of an unconventional vehicle
on a Class VI road there is a liability.
He said it is also his belief that where the Class VI roads are
laid out, the right-of-ways for the property owners, the Town would be
liable for trespassing by allowing unconventional vehicles, and he also
believes the Town would be liable for accident and injury for allowing
unconventional vehicles on Class VI roads.
An audience member explained that the
State of NH has three statutes pertaining to ATVs which essentially say
land that is opened up for recreational use cannot be held liable for
any injuries received due to recreational purposes.
Also the State of NH has a $2 million dollar liability bond that
they file for anyone who signs on to allow ATVs to travel through their
property. Someone else said
that the snowmobile club has the same insurance policy.
The Town Administrator added that the Town would be considered
the property owner. Mimi Wiggin also lives in the Mink Hills
and asked the Boundtree Club why they are trying to infringe on the Mink
Hills when there are trails available elsewhere.
She said people have worked hard to preserve and keep the Mink
Hills un-fragmented. Alan
Piroso answered that the roads in the Mink Hills are public roads.
Ms. Wiggin is not in favor of having ATVs travel the Class VI
roads in the Mink Hills. Bill Simpson, President of the ATV Club,
said fragmentation happens when a parcel is divided.
He said the ATV Club is asking solely for permission to use Town
owned Class VI roads; the club is not fragmenting anything.
Mr. Simpson also believes if a Town restricts all motor vehicles
from Class VI roads, legally the road reverts back to the property
owner. Mr. Simpson also
explained when the Club is looking for an area they look for a situation
that allows the largest area for riding without impacting other areas.
He said trash is absolutely an issue and is in favor of citing
people for leaving trash; the Club has a landowner appreciation day
where the Club goes out and cleans the trails once a year none of which
come from the Clubs usage. Mr.
Simpson said the Club has received compliments about their signage on
the trails for being useful. Another
point Mr. Simpson made regarding the maintenance of Class VI roads, he
said the roads cannot be damaged anymore than what they currently are
from years of erosion. The Club will repair culverts and wet areas but only
through proper permits from the State. Someone asked how many of the 40 members
of the ATV Club are Warner residents.
Someone answered that there are 10 members from Warner. Rebecca Courser asked what the status is
for the Class VI roads. Chairman
Hartman explained that the Town cannot spend money on Class VI roads.
Ms. Courser asked if a Class VI road is discontinued does the
road revert back to the property owner.
Chairman Hartman yes, after a vote at Town Meeting.
Chairman Hartman clarified that the Board is talking about
right-of-ways. Ms. Courser
confirmed that a Class VI road cannot be gated to prevent travel.
Ms. Courser is researching Class A & B trails, she said a
Class VI road can be converted to a Class A trail by vote at Town
Meeting and then if so it can be gated.
Selectman Carson said he too has been researching Class A trails.
He understands the RSA to read if the Town votes to make a Class
VI road a Class A trail the Selectmen decide what kind of traffic will
be allowed on the trail. Ms.
Courser said she is looking at the bigger picture and no matter what
decision the Board makes there is still the on-going issue of usage,
trash, erosion and wet areas that need to be addressed. Ms. Courser recommends the Board of Selectmen consider
establishing a committee made up of representatives from the snowmobile
club, ATV club, Conservation Commission, Selectmen and property owners
from the Minks. Document
what the conditions are now, what are the priorities and also address
logging operations that also contribute to the erosion problem. Someone asked how many communities in the
State of NH allow ATVs on their Class VI roads.
The Town Administrator can query other towns.
The Town Administrator did contact the Town of Hopkinton for a
copy of their agreement with the ATV club, Hopkinton agreed that an
agreement would be a good idea but they do not have one.
However, Hopkinton has given permission for the ATV Club to ride
on Class VI roads and has been very pleased.
Henniker was also contacted but Henniker has not granted
permission. Mr. Simpson
added every year, permission is granted by the Henniker Road Agent. Nancy Martin asked Selectman Carson what
Class A & B trails possibilities entail.
Selectman Carson said the State will allow Town Meeting to
authorize reclassification of a Class VI road to a trail system.
There are two types of trails, Class A & B.
A Class A trail is less restrictive than a Class B trail. He said the big difference from Class VI road and a trail
system is that the regulations the State reserves for a public highway
do not exist anymore; it becomes the prerogative of the Town to set the
regulations for how those trails will be used.
On a Class A trail if there is a camp situated on what was a
Class VI road and it is now a Class A trail the means of traveling to
the camp is grandfathered and the same would be for logging; the Town
would also have the ability to install a gate on the trail and restrict
access. Class B trails
takes the grandfathering away and the land is completely restricted from
vehicular traffic. Nancy
Ladd added that legally a person has a right to log their land. The Town Administrator added that when you discontinue a road
there is always the risk of having to pay damages to the abutters
because they no longer have access to their land.
The statute being referenced is RSA 231-A.
Nancy Martin supports Rebecca Courser
suggestion regarding establishing a committee.
Paul Violette said the ATV Club wants to
be legal and are only asking to travel on a few roads, 8 miles
approximately to make a ride
that will loop back to Hopkinton. Chairman Hartman asked how the ATV Club
would deal with the water situation at Cisco Cemetery which is included
in the trail. Mr. Violette
said it is a hard bottom road and the ATV would go through the water.
Chairman Hartman feels this situation needs to be decided upon as
to how the Club would deal with that.
Someone said that there is case law that states if a beaver
floods a Class VI road that does not make the area a wetland.
Chairman Hartman said this is one particular point that he would
need to feel secure knowing that if the Board designates that area for a
trail that the Board would have the authority to do so as well as which
wetland rule dictates so. An audience member said a decision to
allow ATV use benefits a smaller percentage of Warner residents that
will impact an even larger percentage of Warner residents.
Mr. Violette commented to the statement by saying because of the
lack of snow in recent years he feels there will be more and more ATV
riders and the 10 members from the Town of Warner are family membership
so it is more than just 10 people.
The audience member said that she finds it troubling that there
is more and more motorized activity on the lakes and in the woods, she
feels at some point enough needs to be said.
Mr. Violette does not know why “enough” should be placed on
the ATV Club; there are a lot more people contributing to the use of the
Class VI roads, much worse than what they will do. Rich Stanley said the point that is being
missed is there is already unrestricted use by the jeeps and the dirt
bikes; they are already riding the Class VI roads and they are not going
away unless the roads are gated. The
Club is asking to use only 8 miles of Class VI roads that is already
being used by the unrestricted users.
The State of NH promotes recreation.
Trish Mitchell again referenced a letter
submitted by Dave Carle. In
the letter Mr. Carle explains that ATV activity is not allowed in the
White Mountains; the Forest Service determined they are not compatible
with protecting water quality, wildlife management and soil
preservation. Joanne Hinnendael asked the Town
Administrator to check with the Town of Bradford regarding ATV use in
their town. She is also in
favor of creating a committee that will look at future impacts to an
important environment. Nancy Ladd asked for clarification
regarding the Boundtree ATV Club request; she asked if the request was
for Boundtree Club members only or just all ATVs on Class VI roads.
Chairman Hartman said all ATV use.
Ms. Ladd also said if she were a club member she would be
concerned about being held responsible for everybody’s damage. Chairman Hartman asked the Board members
if they have any questions or comments. Selectman Carson said no matter what the
Board decides it’s important to set a policy that documents all the
reasons and criteria for the decision; especially if another request is
submitted years from now. Lori Terwilliger said if there is already
restricted vehicle use in the Minks by people who are not respecting the
area, by adding potentially more vehicles she envisions a lot more use
in addition to those people that are still going to be out riding the
Class VI roads especially if the ATV industry is trying to promote NH as
a destination. She also
said the Town has put a lot of money toward preserving the Mink Hills
and perhaps the Mink Hills is not the place for ATV travel. Someone asked why this is not an issue for
Town Meeting. Chairman Hartman explained that the Board of Selectmen has
the authority to grant the permission but through the decision process
the Board could also send it to Town Meeting. Kimberley Edelmann asked if one of the
options available to the Selectmen is to make ATV use allowable by
permit only. Chairman
Hartman is not sure it would be fair; the enforcement would be
difficult. Chairman Hartman concluded the public
hearing portion of the meeting and thanked everyone for their
participation and input. The
Selectmen adjourned to the Selectmen’s office to open bids for the
Safe Routes to School engineering planning.
2. Manifest Selectman Karrick made a motion
to authorize the Selectmen to sign manifests and order the Treasurer to
sign Payroll Check numbers 584 – 608 (includes 10 direct deposit
stubs) in the amount of $28,720.82 and Accounts Payable check numbers
44597 – 44605 in the amount of $182,932.12.
The Accounts
Payable includes a school payment in the amount of $144,986.25.
Selectman Carson seconded the motion; all were in favor, the
motion passed. 3. Safe Routes to School Bids GM2 Associates Inc.
197 Loudon Road, Concord, NH
Provan & Lorber
Contoocook, NH Pathway Consulting, LLC
240
Mechanic St. Lebanon, NH Consulting Engineers
540 Commercial St., Manchester, NH KV Partners, LLC
PO Box 888, Manchester, NH Holden Transportation Engineering
Concord, NH The Selectmen will review the bids and
meeting on June 29th at 6:00 p.m.
Non of the bids indicated a cost and it may be because there is a
specific amount for engineering services in the grant, the Town
Administrator will verify with the Director of Public Works. 4. ATV Discussion The Board will further discuss the
Boundtree ATV request at the next Selectmen’s meeting. 5. Motion to Adjourn A motion was made at 9:18 p.m. to adjourn Board of Selectmen David E. Hartman – Chairman Respectfully submitted, Mary Whalen Recording Secretary
|