Town of Warner – Zoning Board of Adjustment
Minutes of the Meeting and Public Hearing
Wednesday, January 19, 2005       7:00 PM
Warner Town Hall , Lower Meeting Room

 

Members Present:              Martha Thoits, Martha Mical, Kenneth Klinedinst, Joanne Hinnendael, Evie Joss

Members Absent:                None

Alternates Present:            John Howe

Alternates Absent:              None

Presiding:                             Martha Thoits

Recording:                            Sissy Brown

 

I.          Open Meeting at 7:00 PM

II.         Roll Call

III.        Approval of the Minutes of the October 13, 2004 Zoning Board of Adjustment Meeting

The minutes of the October 13, 2004 ZBA meeting were approved as corrected.

IV.        Approval of the Minutes of the December 8, 2004 Zoning Board of Adjustment Meeting

The minutes of the December 8, 2004 ZBA meeting were approved as submitted.

       V.        Case #01-05:  Variance

Applicant:  Steven and Andrea Main, 208 North Village Road , Warner, NH

Property Owner:  Steven and Carey Lamora

Property Location:  Map 17, Lots 3 & 5, 6 & 8, East Sutton Road , Warner, NH, R2 Zoning

Purposed Use:  Request a variance as provided in Article XVII, Section B of the Warner Zoning Ordinance to be able to purchase Lamora’s property on Route 103, use the house as rental property and use the 3-bay garage for mail-order sign business

Mr. Main described his proposed business:

·         Move mail order sign business, located on North Village Road for over 10 years, to the subject property

·         Import pottery urns and sand blast names/addresses onto them and sell them through mail order catalogs and on a website:  Plow and Hearth, Solutions and Paragon catalogs

·         Small item, picked up by UPS and shipped to customers throughout the country

·         Not a commercial sign company; small

·         Dogsigns.com – website for residential, small dog signs – also shipped to customers

·         Sign business in residence is difficult for family – need additional space

·         House on property will remain a residence, but not by owner of property.  It will be rental property.

·         Many know that the property is an eyesore and isn’t well groomed.  I plan to do many upgrades to the property and make it look nice.

·         Lived in Warner for 16 years and take a lot of pride in Warner

Ms. Joss:  It is my understanding that you intend to purchase the entire property, rent the house and have the garage be the business location.  Is this correct?

Mr. Main:  Yes.

Ms. Mical:  Are you still going to make banners?  Is all of the sign business going down there?

Mr. Main:  Yes. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  Where on the Use Table would this business be?

Mr. Howe was asked if he is an abutter.  He stated that he is, and Ms. Thoits said that he would have to wait until the public hearing portion of the meeting to ask questions since he is an abutter and must recuse himself from the Board’s discussion.

Ms. Mical:  It is a residential zone and therefore needs to have a variance to have a business there.

The Board discussed the category for the proposed business.  It was decided that it is under #13, Services.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I don’t know why it doesn’t come under Wholesale, Transportation and Industrial because it is…

Ms. Mical:  Because it is retail:  It sells to you and me and everyone else.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Explain again what your business is – you make signs; I know that.  Do you sell these products out of the house?  Do people come to your house and buy them?

Mr. Main:  Right now, I work out of a detached barn.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Do they come there?

Mr. Main:  I have some people that come there, but the majority of my business is mail order.  Through November and December, we did 4,000 of those (urns).

Mr. Klinedinst:  Are these retail, wholesale, or both?

Mr. Main:  Both.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Do you manufacture these there?

Mr. Main:  Yes – I do the add-on – the images on the side.

Ms. Mical:  He doesn’t make the pots.

Mr. Klinedinst:  You’re essentially a manufacture; I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Mr. Main:  Yes, light manufacturing.

Mr. Klinedinst:  You’re not offering a service; i.e....

Ms. Thoits:  But he doesn’t make the parts, though, so essentially he is – he’s putting the images on the pots.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Under the heading of professional services, I think of a doctor’s office or something like that.

Mr. Main:  If you needed a banner for something that you wanted to promote, you’d come to see us to see if we could make a banner.  It would be kind of like providing a service as well as a banner, but it is personalized for you. 

Mr. Klinedinst and Ms. Hinnendael said that they thing that #9 under Wholesale covers the business better.  Ms. Thoits agreed.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I have a small problem with the hardship issue.  I know that this is a good business for Warner and I know that he does a lot for the town, but we have to separate the issues.

Ms. Thoits asked Mr. Main to read his responses to the Variance conditions:

A.      No diminution in surrounding properties will be suffered.

No.  I believe the change in the business from an auto repair service to the requested sign business would improve the property in appearance and would also reduce the daily traffic activity thus generally raising the value of these properties.

B.       Granting of the variance will not be contrary to the public interest.

This property has been used as a business and residence for a number of years.  The house will remain a residence and landscape improvements will take place.  The business will generate less traffic and I also plan to improve the appearance of the 3 bay garage.  It will continue to generate taxes for the town.  Madgetech owns a business with a variance for a similar business in the same local R-2 zone.

C.       Denial of the variance will result in unnecessary hardship to the owner seeking it.

This location is the only one available for this sign business in Warner. I’m involved with many youth activities in Warner and would like to remain in this community, and I also think that if I had to move into that house it would create a hardship because I would have to sell my house on North Village Road .

D.      By granting the variance, substantial justice will be done.

A nice clean business would remain in Warner.  The property would be improved for the benefit of the neighborhood and the town.  The current owners of the property will finally be able to sell the property.  I would be able to continue to stay in the town and be active in youth sports.

E.       The use must not be contrary to the spirit of the ordinance.

The property will remain as a residence, as a rental.  The business part will still be run as a business.  Also, the location of this property in the R-2 zone is not typical.  The property looks like a business and is located next to the Warner town sheds and the Transfer Station, and is on a state highway.  The sign business will be less obtrusive and have less traffic than the original automobile shop.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Is there noise involved in your business?

Mr. Mail:  No.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Because there are houses by the business.  Do variances stay with the property?

Ms. Mical:  Special Exceptions and variances stay with the property.

Ms. Hinnendael:  If they sold the property and moved out of town, what could go in there?  Another sign business?

Ms. Joss:  We can put stipulation – if we grant the variance, we can stipulate that the variance goes with him or that he will have to come before the Board if he decides to sell it, or whatever stipulation we want.  It goes with the property, but we can put stipulations on it.

Ms. Thoits:  If he sold the business, any other type of business would have to come back.  It can’t be any business because it would be a change of use.

Ms. Hinnendael:  If Steve sold his business in that building, Steve would have to tell the new owners what the provisions are for that building and that is the only way they could use it.

Ms. Thoits:  The only other thing would be if he sold the whole property.  They would still have to come in to get a Home Occupation Permit for a home business.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Does this cancel out the car repair shop variance?

Ms. Mical:  There wasn’t a variance – it was a home business.

Ms. Hinnendael:  If this is granted, does this go before the Planning Board for a Site Plan Review?

Ms. Mical:  Yes.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Referring back to when the applicant came for a consultation at the last meeting, it was the flavor of the discussion that because a home business was granted to Madgetech…

Ms. Mical:  Madgetech was a variance.  A home business was granted to Lamora.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Who is the grey house?

Ms. Mical:  That’s Madgetech.  We granted it a variance.

Mr. Klinedinst:  That’s what I’m referring to.  In the minutes, Martha Mical said that we granted the same thing for the same situation in the gray house across from the Transfer Station.  I get the sense that because you grant one, you should grant another one.  That, I don’t…

Ms. Mical:  We don’t need to; that is your decision to make.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Absolutely.

Ms. Thoits:  And I think you’re right – we don’t have to grant one just because the other was granted because they’re two different circumstances.

Mr. Klinedinst:  The other thing is the financial hardship.  I just don’t…

Ms. Mical:  They did not present a financial hardship tonight.  This is the hearing tonight, not the conceptual.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Not to put words in the applicants’ mouth, but explain why this is the only property available [referring to the answers read earlier].  I guess you’re saying that it is the only property that you can move your business into that will fit.

Mr. Main:  It is very had to find any commercial property in Warner. 

Mr. Klinedinst:  Again, not to put words in your mouth, but based on the application you’re asking us to make this commercial property just for you, right?

Mr. Main:  I don’t know if you consider it a hardship, but having to move there…

Ms. Thoits:  That’s personal, that’s not…  Hardship has to apply to the land you’re buying.  That’s a hardship to you, no doubt, because you have a beautiful new house and you don’t want to move.  But that doesn’t apply to the land and that’s where your hardship needs to apply – to Lamora’s.

Mr. Main:  Is the hardship that you have to live there to run a business?

Ms. Thoits:  To run a home business.  If we grant you a variance to run a business, you don’t have to live there because you’d have a variance.  It is a home business now – Mr. Lamora has to live there.  Do you understand the difference?

Mr. Main:  I thought that the definition of a home business is that you’re allowed to have family members and one full-time employee.

Ms. Thoits:  And you have to live there.

Ms. Mical:  That’s the wrong definition.  The people that work there must live on the premises or be part time.  You can’t have any full time employees unless they live there.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Do you have any employees?

Mr. Main:  I have one full time employee right now.

Ms. Thoits:  That’s ok for a business.  But if you moved there and made this a home business, you can only have a part time employee.

Ms. Mical:  But they have to live on the property. 

Mr. Main:  If you have a home business, I always understood that you’re allowed to have one full time employee.

Ms. Thoits:  I thought so, too.

Ms. Mical:  When the definition was written…

Mr. Klinedinst:  What about it isn’t right?

Ms. Mical:  Well…

Ms. Thoits:  That’s really not the issue here. 

Mr. Main:  I think that the hardship in having that property by definition as a home business is that I need more expansion than a home business would allow, and that’s one full time employee.  I really need three full time employees.  So if  I’m not able to move there and I’m not able to get the variance, the hardship would be that I wouldn’t be able to have the number of employees that I need for my business.

Ms. Thoits:  Now I think you’re hitting on something.

Mr. Klinedinst:  There’s a lot of information in the answers to the questions.  In D, you stated that the property would now be able to be sold.  I don’t think that this Board is in the business of helping property owners to sell their property.  I don’t think that supports the application at all. 

Ms. Mical:  Well, isn’t that question that by granting the variance, substantial justice would be done?  And if they comment…

Mr. Klinedinst:  Where’s the injustice if the property owner that owns it now can’t sell it?  Is the injustice up to the Board to correct?

Ms. Mical:  No.  I’m not saying that it is, but that is an appropriate comment.

Mr. Klinedinst:  That may be an appropriate comment, but I’m saying that I don’t think that we’re in the business of helping a property owner sell his property by granting a variance.

Ms. Thoits:  I think you’re right there.

Ms. Mical:  But it’s not an inappropriate comment to have on there.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I don’t think it supports the application.

Ms. Thoits: I don’t think it would matter one way or the other.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I don’t think that if this property were improved that it would help the property.  It would still look like a business.  You mentioned that you were going to do some landscaping.  But being located next to the Transfer Station – I don’t see what the actual impact is going to be if you actually take that property over.  I don’t know how you’d be less obtrusive.  I’ve only been in Warner for 10 years, but I don’t recall there being a lot of traffic at Lamoras.  I know that he had his wreckers in there and signs and cars for sale there – that was obtrusive.  But I think that the hardship part of it is not answered.

Ms. Joss:  I think that part of the hardship, and I know that this pertains to the owner, but I think it would ease the hardship of everyone in that neighborhood that has had to look at that monstrosity.  I can see it improved and made an asset for the town because I know that there could be something worse there.  If vegetation and landscaping were done, that would be an improvement to the property.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I’m sure the Planning Board would want you to do something if it goes to them.  Do you plan to do something about the bay doors on that garage?

Mr. Main:  Yes.  I haven’t decided which to remove – there’s a 14-foot door and it is all the way to the right side of the building, which would be good if a large truck needed to come in.  The land drops down and comes back up again.  It would look nice with a retaining wall and fence and some flag poles.

Ms. Hinnendael:  It does wash out every spring.  You’re absolutely right, and that’s probably something the Planning Board would address.  Are you planning on enlarging the building?

Mr. Main:  No.

Ms. Hinnendael:  We don’t need to do anything about renting the house, do we?

Ms. Mical:  No.  He’s requesting a variance for a business out of that location.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Even though Lamoras – is that considered a commercial or a home business?

Ms. Thoits:  That’s a home business. 

Mr. Klinedinst: But was he does is essentially a commercial operation.

Ms. Mical:  It’s a home business because he did not employ anyone other than people that lived in his house.

Mr. Klinedinst:  The business as we know it – not for what he applied for – is a commercial business. 

Ms. Mical:  I guess you could call it that.  But it fit the standards for a home occupation at the time.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I understand that.  I’m just thinking of what business took place there in the last 10 years.

Ms. Mical:  It is in the table that says “home occupations not involving the on-lot, full time employee not living in the home.”  There’s a conflict of the two definitions in the ordinance.

Hearing no further questions, Ms. Thoits closed the Board meeting and opened the Public Hearing.

Abutters:

Paul Proulx:  I have no doubt that these people are well intended; however, the history of this piece of property goes back 15 years.  While we’re in the discussion of home businesses, the definition of a home business is if it is in the residence and not isolated from this.  When this was granted, there were a lot of errors at that time.  Also, the garage was built before the house was, which kind of goes against a home business.  There were a lot of stipulations, like there was supposed to be a 25-foot buffer on that piece of property.  Consequently, those stipulations were violated:  the trees were all cut down.  I now refer to it as the desert of Warner , and people here know what I’m talking about.  The place is a disgrace – I’ll go along with that.  The problem that I have is what we were just talking about.  If a variance was granted – there are at least 3 pieces of property within one mile of that district that have gotten variances.  Some of them are not adhered to.  Others, when they were applied for – and I speak of the one closer towards town – said that they were going to have 6 or 8 cars…  It now looks like a used car lot.  There are 16 or 18 cars there a day, in that yard.  These things grow.  I’m not going to get into the other situation – I don’t want to go there.  Going back to variances, denials of hardship or whatever; in considering those 5 requirements:  By the RSA 674:33, each of the conditions must be met.  In other words, all 5 of them need to be met, not just one.  Hardships cannot be created by law. If they’re there, they’re there.  You cannot create a hardship.  Mr. Lamora created his own hardship when he devalued his property by stripping it and now he cannot sell it for what he wants for it.  The hardship on your part, sir, can only go to the owner of the property.  Variances can only…

Ms. Thoits:  Excuse me, Mr. Proulx, but we do have a letter from Mr. Lamora giving him permission to do this.  So he has the right to come and ask for the variance.  Mr. Lamora has given us a letter allowing him that privilege.

Mr. Proulx:  Denial of the variance would result in unnecessary hardship to the owner seeking it.  That tells me that’s the owner of the property.  And until such time as you buy that piece of property…

Ms. Mical:  No.  We have consistently heard requests when the applicant has a sales agreement pending the granting or denial of a variance.  We have consistently heard those.

Mr. Proulx:  From people that are not owners of the property?

Ms. Mical:  Yes. 

Ms. Thoits:  When it is pending.

Mr. Proulx:  I hear what you’re talking about.  I think it’s stretching it, but that’s my opinion.  But all five of these have to be met.  Hardship by law cannot be created.  And the fact that he does not own the property at this point – who is the hardship for?  Mr. Lamora if he can’t sell his property?  I take issue with what was said before – variances do not go with the property.  If you change anything, you need a new variance.

Ms. Mical:  If you change something, but not ownership.

Mr. Proulx: Somebody cannot go in there right now and run a garage.

Ms. Mical:  No, they can’t, because it was a home business. 

Mr. Proulx:  That would be some other legal term, I guess.  My personal opinion, and there are issues in this town right now – I believe with these ordinances that businesses belong in commercial zones and residences belong in residential zones.  We have a great growth problem going on right now, and if we start expanding this, there are situations in town where commercial businesses have encroached onto residential areas after they bought the piece of property.  It’s like pushing from one property to the next.  What’s to stop any business from buying the property next door and getting a variance?  The problem exists with who’s enforcing this?  Every time you allow a variance, you weaken the ordinance – whether you put stipulations on it or what you do.  You weaken the main concept of that ordinance.

Ms. Thoits:  I’m going to read this letter from the Mr. Lamora that I should have read in the beginning:

Mr. and Mrs. S. Lamora

6 & 8 East Sutton Road

Warner, NH

December 2, 2004

To:                  Town of Warner Planning and Zoning Boards, Warner, NH

Re:                  Property located at 6 & 8 East Sutton Road , Warner, NH

To Whom It May Concern:

Please be advised that we hereby grant permission to the town to discuss any aspect of our property located as referenced above with Mr. and Mrs. Steven Main.  Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Sincerely,   Steven Main and Carrie Main

Ms. Joss:  I would say that when you say that every time we grant a variance we weaken the ordinance – we would never grant a variance in fear of weakening the ordinance.  What would be the purpose of having a Zoning Board?

Mr. Proulx:  I have been through this so many times.  If you go through and read, in BOCA – which is the building code ordinance – it reads in there that the zoning board has the opportunity to grant slight variances.  I don’t believe that it allows businesses…  Slight variances mean boundaries, setbacks, whatever.  I recall hearing from a lecturer on zoning ordinances at a seminar when he said that variances should only be given very lightly because they weaken the overall ordinance.  The problem is that they become difficult to enforce and just because you do it for this one, you can do it for the next one and the next one and the next one.  The ordinances were originally established for this purpose – if you can prove – hardships are one of the most difficult things to prove.  They should be the most difficult thing to prove, and that’s why you need to meet all five of them at one time. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  Any of the seminars that I’ve gone to say that, too, but there have been so many Supreme Court cases this year loosening that hardship requirement, and I keep trying to collect as much information as I can on hardship because that is the most difficult.  And they tell us at all of the zoning training…

Mr. Proulx:  What most of these pertain to, and this is the reason that they got loosened, this business wanted to do something with their piece of property in the commercial zone, which is fine.  The town of Salem said that they can’t do it and everyone was against it.  The court ruled that they should be able to do what they wanted with their property.  So they were able to do what they wanted by the courts.  The fact is that it was a commercial property and what they wanted to do with it was commercial.  Under that condition, I agree with them.  One of the criteria in there is that it should go against the spirit of the area that the property is in.  Residences belong in residential areas and commercial belong in commercial areas.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I’m concerned because I can’t remember what those decisions were that were recently made.  The Supreme Court is all over the map.

Mr. Klinedinst:  First of all, I don’t think that the letter from Mr. Lamora doesn’t make Mr. Main the property owner. 

Ms. Mical:  We aren’t saying that.

Mr. Klinedinst:  It doesn’t make it the right thing to do, because it is the property owner that has to show the hardship.  I don’t think that it is right for him to come in and be the surrogate property owner for Mr. Lamora.

Ms. Mical:  No.  The applicant should not have to commit to buying a piece of property if he cannot use the property as he would like to.  We have the right, with Mr. Lamora’s permission, to grant the variance so that this man can do or not do whatever he would like.

Mr. Klinedinst:  We may have Mr. Lamora’s permission, but we don’t have the ordinance’s permission to do that.  That’s my point.

Mr. Howe:  When did Mr. Lamora get in charge of the Zoning Board?

Mr. Klinedinst:  That’s what makes it out of the spirit of the ordinance.

Ms. Mical:  I think it is in the spirit of the ordinance because we have done this.  If you want to change the rules, that’s fine. 

Mr. Howe and Mr. Klinedinst:  We’re not changing the rules.

Ms. Mical:  We have done this in the past, which you’re saying, “OK, we shouldn’t have done it.”  But you don’t wait until the guy shows up.  You should have stated this at the last meeting.

Mr. Howe and Mr. Klinedinst:  I think we did.

Ms. Joss:  I’m confused.  Do you want Mr. Lamora to come here and ask for a variance?

Mr. Klinedinst:  No.  What I’m saying is that Mr. Lamora is the property owner.

Ms. Mical:  Currently.

Mr. Klinedinst:  The hardship portion of the questions that have to be answered are the property owners’ hardship.  The applicant is not the property owner.

Ms. Mical:  So you’re saying that he has to buy the property before he can find out if he can use it?

Mr. Howe:   No.  I think that what we should say is that this gentleman does not have the hardship if he doesn’t buy the property.  He is creating a hardship by buying the property.

Ms. Thoits:  You’re not supposed to be talking.

Mr. Howe:  Why?  We’re in a public thing now. 

Ms. Thoits:  Then you need to go out and be public. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  Why don’t we listen to the other abutters?

Ms. Thoits:  You can do that, John, and speak as an abutter.  But you’re not supposed to be at the table.

Ms. Howe:  We are abutters, and I don’t know anything about the law, but when we bought our house on Waterloo , Lamora was not there.  That was a beautiful little coral with horses and trees and totally residential.  We would not have bought our house if that had been a garage.  There’s no reason why it should stay.  If Mr. Lamora can’t sell it, that’s too bad.  I would like to see it go back to being a private home like was when we bought our home.  That’s all.

Mr. Howe:  Now may I say something? 

Mr. Thoits:  Now you may talk.

Mr. Howe:  For heavens sake.  I think that the deeper issue here, for the Board, is not just a piece of property.  It is the question that we have been facing all along about keeping commercial property in commercial zones and keeping residential property as residential.  If we don’t stick to that, we’re going to Balkanize this town and it will be a hodgepodge all over the place.  Now, this particular thing – Mr. Lamora created his own hardship, as Mr. Proulx has eloquently stated it.  He was given a variance for a home business and he immediately turned it into a commercial property.  But it is not going to be allowed to be a commercial property as long as I have breath to speak.  It is a residential area and it is going to remain a residential area and this gentleman – this applicant – has shown up and said that he wants to make it commercial.  For my money, that’s out, finished – game over.  He cannot make it a commercial property because we won’t allow it.  And any other commercial businesses that are in a residential zone – we want them out, too.  We want to retain our residential area.  We want to keep it, and it is up to this Zoning Board, regardless of the mistakes this Board has made in the past, two wrongs don’t make a right.  Finished.

Ms. Thoits asked if any other abutters wished to speak.

Walter Dawson:  I’m representing Guy and Susie Burlock who live right across at 15 East Sutton Road .  First off, I don’t see what difference it would make if someone bought that whole piece of property just like Lamora has it and they could still have a business there.  There nothing you could do to change it.  We had a business up there for 20 years.  You can drive up the driveway and you wouldn’t even know that there’s a business there.  You’ve got the Town shed right down the road; you’ve got the Transfer Station right down the road.  You also have Brayshaw Printing and other businesses – anything would be better than looking at that place now.  These folks are running a small business.  He can’t have anymore employees because of the location where he’s at.  He’s willing to dress up the property and do something with it.  Lamora screwed up and he ruined the property by what he did with it – there’s no doubt about it.  But there are only so many things that are going to happen with that piece of property.  I don’t like business there any more than you do.  I don’t want to have anybody around me – I don’t want buildings and all this.  And I understand your points.  But these are good people with a small business and they just want to expand as little bit.  It’s not going to be some commercial business with cranes and big trucks and thousands of vehicles coming in and out all day.  You’re still going to have one residence and a small business there and I think it is a very good thing, what they’re doing, because looks what’s happened with the property – it’s just sitting there.  And what has it done for the Town of Warner ?

Mr. Howe:  Excuse me, sir. We don’t know any of those things you’re saying.  In the first place, when Lamora took over that property we didn’t know that he was going to do what he did.  When Brayshaw took over his property, we didn’t know what he was going to do. 

Ms. Thoits:  John, please address the Board.

Mr. Howe:   Well, I’ll address you.  We did not know, the idea, you know, that you say that these are nice people.  I’m sure they’re nice people.  I’ve been up to their business.  I’ve seen their nice business.  But they’re going to have to put their nice business somewhere else because we’re in a residential area and we are not in a business area and this gentleman has said that he wants a commercial area and we don’t know how far he’s going to go and where he’s going to go – we didn’t know where Lamora…  As soon as he got the bit in his mouth, he ran with it.  The same thing is true of Dick Brayshaw.  Ladies and gentlemen, you have no guarantees the minute you offer a variance because you can’t put restrictions on it because nobody listens to them.

Ms. Thoits asked if anyone else wished to speak.

Mike Sailer:  I agree with Mr. Dawson.

Hearing no further discussion, Ms. Thoits closed the Public Hearing and reopened the Board meeting.

Mr. Klinedinst:  What I’ve heard from the non-abutters -- Mr. Dawson and Mr. Sailer – and some members of this Board…  I don’t know Mr. Main personally.  He seems like a nice fellow and he runs a nice business.  But we don’t grant – we shouldn’t grant – variances or special exceptions because they’re nice people or because they’re going to improve a corner of a neighborhood, for that reason only.  We have stipulations that they have to meet to obtain approval of a variance and in my opinion, he hasn’t met those.  Particularly the hardship part.  And I still say that, as I said earlier, even though his intentions are to get an approval so that he can buy the property that’s not what the regulations are for.  The regulations are for property owners and he doesn’t own the property.  To support his application from the public standpoint by saying that the Transfer Station is down there, Brayshaw is down over here, and somebody else is over there doesn’t support the application.  And we have commercial zones in the town; unfortunately in the past, these types of variances have been approved and as the two abutters over here have stated – there’s no way to enforce these things.  And the Board in the past has attempted to put stipulations from A to Z, either on home businesses or other variances, and they just don’t work or there’s been a change in personnel over the years.  The neighbors are the best enforcers, and it just doesn’t happen unless the neighbors are actually watching what’s going on and checking all of the little things that have to take place when a variance is issued.  But it’s not because this gentleman and his family don’t have good intentions and they’re not good business people and are an asset to Warner.  Those are all goes things, but we can’t placate and issue variances or special exceptions for that purpose.

Mr. Dawson:  Why is it that…

Ms. Thoits:  Actually, the Public Hearing portion of the meeting is closed.  We’re back into the meeting.

Ms. Hinnendael:   Number one, I don’t consider this commercial – I consider what is in our commercial zone commercial.  I consider this a business like those on Main Street , which is a business district.  And so that’s where I’m coming from.  I know it’s a good business and I know it’s a clean business.  I almost would like to postpone this so that they can come back and maybe get some advice on the hardship issue.  It’s not that I’m not listening to everyone else; I’m thinking that the place where it would be a good thing is that they’re going to go before the Planning Board and the Planning Board is going to make them clean that property up.  And I know that has nothing to do with the variance.  This Board, for years and years and years, has said that they’re not a precedent setting Board and you’re absolutely right on that because we shouldn’t be because people will be coming in and saying, “Well, you did it for them and you should do it for us.”  That happens so much.  I’m really having a hard time with this because I know that if they were moving into that house it would be no problem and they would go through and they would clean that place up.  But at the same time I’m really confused about the hardship issue and it’s very difficult.  I’d like to see something, some kind of something worked out.  I think that they are allowed to negotiate because I know that we have lawyers come in and represent people and the property owners don’t come in and they have letters saying that they can do this, so I know that they can do this.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Excuse me – I’m not saying that they can’t represent the owner.  I’m saying that the ordinance is based on the land owner’s property, alright?  And …

Ms. Hinnendael:  I guess I want some kind of clarification and if more time would assist in pulling something together to clarify this…

Mr. Klinedinst:  Let’s look at it this way.  If it were Lamora in here applying for a variance, would you say he had a hardship or not?

Ms. Mical:  If he was going for a side business?

Mr. Klinedinst:  Yes.  Where is his hardship?

Ms. Mical:  His hardship is that the location is the only one available for that size of sign business.

Ms. Thoits:  I have a hard time with that, too.  I’m really having a hard time with this because I think that the Mains have a very good business and a very good intent, and that if they were given the variance that the property would look 100 times better or more because I think that they would do what they’re intending to do because I think that they are very reputable people.  But I think that the problem with the Zoning Board is that we have to – no matter what our personal opinions are – follow the law and we have to say in our minds, “are they really answering all 5 of these questions?”  And like Joanne, I’m having a little problem with the hardship.  It’s really a difficult situation because sometimes you have to say things that you don’t want to happen because you have to follow the law.  We’re really in a hard place here because I think that we’re all kind of in agreement that this is a good business, but is it really answering all 5 of those questions.

Ms. Mical:  I think that is something that we each have to decide for ourselves in each of our own minds – do these answer the 5 questions?

Ms. Thoits:  And would it make any difference if we did what Joanne suggested and wait another month to do it.  Is it going to change anything?

Ms. Hinnendael:  I don’t know.  If they had some advice about the hardship issue…

Ms. Thoits:  Do you mean as in legal advice?

Ms. Hinnendael:  Maybe, I don’t know.  I just need someone to prove to me that there is a hardship, because I know that it is a really good idea and I know that this would work really well there.  But I also have to consider what’s happening on Route 103 because I know that we’re all affected by it.  I believe that a number of years ago that there was actually a proposed zoning amendment, that was defeated, to extend the commercial zoning even further down there.  Even though I don’t consider this commercial like a MacDonalds or a gas station or like that, I think that it is more like a Main Street business even though it is manufacturing but it’s not horrible.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Like Sundance.

Ms. Thoits:  Yes, like Sundance.  That’s what I was thinking, too. 

Mr. Main:  This is a flyer that was issued by the Central New Hampshire Planning Commission and it clarifies in here, to me, that, “the Zoning Board may authorize a variance from the terms of this Ordinance for a particular use, parcel of land or to an existing building thereon from the terms of this chapter where, owing to conditions especially affecting such parcel or such building, but not affecting generally the district in which it is located, a literal enforcement of the provisions of this Ordinance would result in unnecessary hardship.  1.  The ZBA may authorize a variance from this chapter only where it confirms in writing that each and every one of the following has been met:”

And this is for a use variance, which is what we’re asking for –

i.                     The zoning restriction as applied to the applicant’s property interferes with the applicant’s reasonable use of the property, considering the unique setting of the property in its environment.

I think that it meets that because this property is in a unique setting and the zoning restrictions would interfere with a reasonable use of that property and with that commercial building being on that land – if someone were to purchase that property with a 3-bay garage it is unreasonable to think that one person, or just a family member, would be allowed to run that property.  So I think right there that is a reasonable use of the property.  And I think that when a property that has a 3 bay garage on it, it is reasonable to think that a business could be run out of that.  And also the unique setting of the property in its environment – the setting is right on a state highway and it is right next to the Town sheds.  Looking at those factors, I think that you as a Board could legally in your minds could, “Yes, that’s a hardship.” 

Mr. Klinedinst:  If you were the property owner now, if you owned that piece of property – whether you lived there or not – where would the hardship be?

Mr. Main:  The hardship would be that by restricting me from running a business out of that property – and it’s right there – that it would be restricting a reasonable use of a building on that property. 

Ms. Mical:  Yes, and it is a unique setting because it is on a state highway.

Ms. Howe:  Isn’t it on Newmarket Road ?

Ms. Mical:  No, it is on East Sutton

Mr. Howe:  It is on Newmarket Road .

Ms. Mical:  No, the address is on East Sutton, but the frontage is on Route 103.

Mr. Howe:  There is no entry on the state highway.

Ms. Mical:  There is no entry, but the frontage is on 103.

Mr. Howe:  There is supposed to be a buffer there.

Ms. Mical:  It doesn’t matter – it’s still the property.

Mr. Klinedinst:  What’s the address?

Ms. Mical:   The address is on East Sutton because the driveway is on East Sutton.  But it is a corner lot. 

Mr. Main added to his application, as read by Ms. Thoits:

“C.  The zoning restriction as applied to the applicant’s property interferes with the applicant’s reasonable use of the property considering the unique setting of the property in its environment.”

Mr. Klinedinst:  Can I ask a question?  In a unique setting in what way – how is it unique?

Mr. Main:  Because it has a 30 x 60-foot 3 bay garage.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Ok, it has buildings on the property that are unique.

Mr. Main:  And also I’d say that’s what’s unique about the property.

Ms. Mical:  And the location, as he stated earlier, being on Route 103 and…

Mr. Klinedinst:  It’s not on 103.

Ms. Thoits and Ms. Mical:  It is on 103.  You look at any map, and it is on 103.  And it’s next to the Town sheds and the Transfer Station. 

Mr. Klinedinst:  Does that make the next house behind it unique as well?

Ms. Mical:  Yes.  Let’s see, the next house behind it abuts the Town shed property.

Mr. Klinedinst:  So does that make that property unique, too? 

Ms. Mical:  I think that the fact that you have a Town shed next to you makes the property unique.  The next house back has a much greater distance to the Town shed than this property does, which makes it less unique than this property.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I don’t know how you define a unique property – I don’t see a definition for unique property. 

Mr. Main:  It says unique setting; “unique setting of the property.” 

Ms. Joss:  I think that by definition, every lot doesn’t have a Town garage next to it, so I would say that qualifies as unique.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Isn’t there a buffer there, with the trees? 

Ms. Mical:  Yes, there are trees, but the lots touch each other.

Ms. Hinnendael:  But it is buffered, so if you’re sitting in that house you don’t know.

Ms. Mical:  If you’re sitting in that house, you do not know.  But if you’re at the garage, especially at night, I believe you do know that the highway shed is there. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  But if this was used as a regular home – someone living there – they would not know that the Town shed was there because there is a buffer there.  I think that we need to keep Town lots out of this because I think that actually came in after that.  I’m getting better at this with the unique setting, but I really would like to table this until…

Ms. Mical:  If you would like to do that, make a motion.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Because I truly don’t know if this would be a…

Ms. Thoits:  John, the Public Hearing is closed.

Mr. Howe:  Everybody else is making comment.

Ms. Thoits:  Only Mr. Main, because he is the applicant.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I think that this would be a good business for this lot, and it’s not that I’m not that I’m listening to the public but I think that I just want more information on that hardship. 

Mr. Main:  Can you explain what you think is wrong with the hardship?

Ms. Hinnendael:  I can’t.  I mean, I think that it’s getting there and I think that it is a unique environment and that lot is a mess, and all the stuff that you want to do I think is great.  But I keep thinking about everyone else’s feelings and what has happened to some of the other home businesses in that area.  I don’t know what is going to happen to that area.  Every time something else goes in there, it just feels like things are spreading.  So I feel for the neighbors and I’m really torn about this.  So I have indecision.  I’m sorry.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I’m struggling with what defines a unique property.  I mean, you take the people – I don’t know who they are – that live just above what I call the Wentzel plaza, which is nothing but a bunch of rocks right now.  The next house up going eastbound, right down the hill.  Is his property unique because he’s next to Wentzel?

Ms. Mical:  Actually, his property is in the commercial zone, so it’s unique in and of itself.

Mr. Klinedinst:  But the point that I’m driving at is that you can start to label everything unique depending on what your benchmark is and we don’t have a definition of what unique is.

Mr. Main:  I think that its unique in the fact that if you look at a piece of commercial property that is less than a mile from this property on the same state highway, abutting a municipality –those two things:  on a state highway and abutting the town property – that really makes that a unique piece of property.  Reasonable use of the property because it has a garage on it – by not granting a variance interferes with the reasonable use of this property.  

Mr. Klinedinst:  I understand what you’re saying.  I struggle with the definition that you give me for unique.  I don’t know what’s unique.  There are so many things that I could say are unique in this town and in any other town. 

Mr. Main:  I don’t see why a state agency would write something that seems that vague to somebody.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I wasn’t at the last meeting, so I just got my copy.  But the last paragraph in the last thing says, “The Planning and Zoning Boards should consult with us…” – meaning the Central New Hampshire Regional Planning Commission, which we have a contract with –“and their town counsel to discuss incorporating the provisions of the Boccia test into the town zoning ordinance.  Towns should be aware that subsequent case law may further clarify or restrict the holding in the Boccia case.”  

Ms. Hinnendael made a motion to postpone a decision on the application until the Board talks either with CNHRPC or Town Counsel and get some advice on this, and come back next month.  Ms. Joss seconded the motion.  Hearing no discussion on the motion, a vote was taken.  Evie Joss:  Yes;  Martha Mical:  No; Ken Klinedinst: Yes; Joanne Hinnendael:  Yes.  The motion passed by a majority vote.

Ms. Main asked how these agencies were going to be asked, and Ms. Thoits said that the Board would conduct CNHRPC and Town Counsel.  Ms. Thoits also suggested that the applicants consult with an attorney for advice on the hardship issue.  Ms. Hinnendael asked if the Board would continue the Public Hearing at the next meeting to allow input on the findings of the Board.  Ms. Mical said that it would be posted as a continuation on the Agenda. 

Ms. Hinnendael made a motion to continue the Public Hearing until the next meeting.  Mr. Klinedinst seconded the motion.  The motion passed by a majority vote.

Mr. Howe:  The point that I was trying to make about unique is that everyone on Waterloo Road backs up to Route 103, the state highway.  None of us have access – there’s nothing unique about being on the state highway except the traffic.

Ms. Thoits:  OK.  We’re done with that case.

       VI.                Consultation:  Paul Proulx

Zoning Regulations

Ms. Mical made a motion that the Town Attorney has advised the Board that it not hear the case because it is not in our jurisdiction. 

Ms. Mical said that she had discussed the matter on the phone with Mr. Gartrell, and he said that it does not apply because the matter of an appeal by Mr. Proulx doesn’t involve a zoning ordinance and therefore the ZBA has no jurisdiction.

Ms. Thoits read RSA 674:33:  The Zoning Board of Adjustment shall have the power to hear and decide appeals if it is alleged that there was an error in any order, requirement, decision or determination made by the administrative official in enforcement of zoning ordinance.

Ms. Thoits and Ms. Mical:  This is not a zoning ordinance.  It is a site plan.

Mr. Proulx:  If you’ll read RSA 674:33, it says, at the bottom if you keep going…

Ms. Mical:  That’s what she just read.  I have a motion on the floor.  Is there a second?

Mr. Klinedinst:  Can we have discussion?

Ms. Mical:  You have to second the motion first.

Ms. Thoits:  We have to have second before we can discuss it.

Mr. Proulx:  The Zoning Board of Adjustment, under the powers of the ZBA – is that what you were just reading?

Ms. Thoits:  Yes. 

Mr. Proulx:  The enforcement -- it’s the enforcement of any zoning ordinance adopted pursuant to RSA 674:16.  If you go down to #2:  In exercising this power under paragraph one, the Zoning Board of Adjustment may reverse, affirm, wholly or in part, may modify, alter a requirement or decision or determinations, appeal from and make such order or decision as ought to be made to that end and shall have the power of the administrative officials from whom the appeal is taken.  In other words, they can assume the power of the enforcement officer.

Ms. Mical:  I’m relaying what the Town Counsel has advised this Board.

Mr. Proulx:  I’m taking issue with it.

Ms. Mical:  That’s fine, but I’ve made the motion to not hear this case because Town Counsel has advised us that it is not in our jurisdiction.

 

Mr. Howe:  Excuse me – did Town Counsel have all of this information in front of him?

Ms. Mical:  He had Mr. Proulx’s…

Mr. Howe:  Did he have what Mr. Proulx just quoted?

Ms. Mical:  I had the RSA in front of me and I read it to him.

Mr. Howe:  And you read him this?

Ms. Mical:  I read him RSA 676:5.

Mr. Proulx:  Which refers to 676:33.

Ms. Mical:  Yes. 

Mr. Proulx:  As who has what power.

Ms. Mical:   And he was aware of that one.

Mr. Proulx:  The way I read it, they have the power…

Ms. Mical:  I’m just telling you what legal counsel has told us.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I understand what you’re telling us.  My opinion is that we not hear this case until we have it in writing from Town Counsel.  We’re going to get into a court situation here…

Mr. Howe:  We certainly are.

Ms. Mical:  Town Counsel’s advice is that Mr. Proulx should be taking his original issue…

Mr. Proulx:  No it’s not.  This is a brand new issue.

Ms. Mical:  Well, he should be taking the appeal to the Superior Court. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  Can you get that in writing from Don?

Ms. Mical:  I will try.

Mr. Proulx:  this is what the Board is for – it is a Board of Appeal.  This is not a Board for Zoning Adjustments right now; this comes under a different heading. 

Secretary:  Don had told us in the fall, I believe, and he also told us again that it’s a Board of Appeal for zoning ordinance issues, not…  The Board has no jurisdiction over anything that the Selectmen decide. 

Ms. Mical:  Unless it is a direct zoning ordinance.

Secretary:  But this is not a zoning ordinance issue – it is a site plan.

Mr. Proulx:  I beg your pardon, but it is.  It is a zoning ordinance issue.  There is a zoning issue that implicates…

Mr. Klinedinst:  Get it in writing.

Ms. Mical:  I believe he’s given it to us in writing once before, but I’ll see if I can get it again. 

Mr. Klinedinst:  Get it in writing from the Town Counsel and then we have documentation and it then becomes part of the record.

Mr. Howe:  My concern is that we’re getting second-hand information and I think we should have it first-hand and in writing.

Mr. Klinedinst:  I agree with that.

Mr. Proulx:  I have a very bad opinion of how you ask questions to lawyers, because you can get any answer you want depending on the question you ask.

Ms. Mical:  Well, I simply read your words.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Was this whole thing faxed to Don?

Ms. Mical:  No, I read him…

Ms. Hinnendael:  Would you fax this to Don and ask him if he still agrees with that, and then we can take it up again at the next meeting.  The problem is that if Mr. Proulx needs to file something with Superior Court, I don’t know what his time table is.  Will our continuance still allow him to file something with Superior Court? 

Ms. Mical:  When was your letter…?

There was discussion about the time table for filing an appeal.

Mr. Proulx:  I have a problem with a one-sided question to Town Counsel.  I would like to be able to address that with him.

Ms. Mical:  You need to get your own lawyer, because the Town Counsel is our lawyer.

Mr. Proulx:  Why should I, as a town person – I’m just asking him questions to see what his answers are.  You ask any one of them a pointed question, and you can get…

Ms. Mical:  You can ask the same lawyer the same question and get three different answers.

Mr. Proulx:  That’s what I’m trying to say.

Secretary:  The only question will be that I’m going to fax him what you gave to us and the question will be whether or not the ZBA has jurisdiction to hear this matter.

Mr. Proulx:  You just look at RSA 676:5, and you look under that and it says, “... any zoning ordinance adopted pursuant to 674:16.”  However, you go down and look at the rest of it and it says this is the Board of Appeals. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  That’s right, but there are certain things that you can’t come to this Board for. 

Mr. Proulx:  I understand that, but the Board of Appeal can look into any decision by any administrative officer not matter what the charge is.

Ms. Hinnendael:  But I think that excludes some people, and that’s why I would really like to hear…  If Don says we should hear it, then we’re happy to hear it and you know we are.  But we got one answer saying that we shouldn’t hear it and that’s why I think that Don should have the whole thing and…

Mr. Proulx:  Just for a point of interest, I’ve already been to a lawyer.

Ms. Mical and Ms. Hinnendael:  That’s all right.

Mr. Klinedinst:  Mr. Proulx, that makes it even more important that we get it in writing from the Town Counsel stating why this Board should not hear it. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  Because we need the advice.

There was no second to Ms. Mical’s motion made earlier.

Ms. Hinnendael made the motion to have the Secretary fax the letter from Paul Proulx to Don Gartrell and get a written opinion from him on whether the Board should hear it or not, and if there is a time table for Mr. Proulx to file something with the court if the Board can’t hear it.  If the Board can hear it, then he’ll have something else to appeal to the Superior Court.  If the Board needs to hear it sooner, then we’ll have to figure something out.

Ms. Mical:  This letter just came today.  If it happened to be a 30-day, which I think it is for an appeal, then the date was already missed. 

There was a discussion among the Board about the time table for an appeal, and Mr. Proulx said that he didn’t remember when he received the letter from the Selectmen.

Ms. Joss seconded Ms. Hinnendael’s motion.  The motion passed by a unanimous vote.

Ms. Thoits:  This is a very confusing matter, because I can see where Mr. Proulx is coming from.

Ms. Mical:  I can, too.  But unfortunately it’s in the wrong spot.

Ms. Thoits:  However, if they’re violating a court order, which they apparently are, I’m not sure what we can do about that. 

Ms. Mical:  That’s the courts…

Ms. Hinnendael:  That’s why I would like it in writing from Don so that we actually have documentation.

Ms. Thoits:  I think that the Board should meet with Don Gartrell in person to discuss this matter. 

Mr. Proulx:  If I may, my problem is not with the violation of the court order; it is with the lack of enforcement by the enforcing body that reviews.  Your authority is to deal with any changes…

Ms. Thoits:  Just a minute, Mr. Proulx.  I did read in here that we cannot tell them that we need to enforce it.  I can sit here and hunt for it…  It says that the Zoning Board cannot tell the Selectmen to enforce the code. 

Ms. Mical:  Right.

Mr. Proulx:  RSA 674:33 says that you can take over the authority of that administrative body.

Ms. Thoits:  I don’t know.  It’s beyond me.  I think we need to meet with Don, and we can discuss the hardship issue at the same time.

The Secretary will contact Don Gartrell to set up a meeting that will be agreeable to both him and the majority of the Board, and will contact the Board members of the date and time of the meeting.  She will fax the information to Don’s office after the meeting.

      VII.          Sailer & Hale:  Stipulation

Mike Sailer and Andrew Hale, property on North Road

Ms. Thoits, Mr. Hale and Mr. Sailer all agreed that they are at this meeting to discuss a Stipulation that was agreed to between the attorneys for the Town and Sailer and Hale.  Corrected copies of the stipulation have been received from the attorneys.  Ms. Thoits read a letter received from Don Gartrell on January 11, 2005 , into the record:

Since my letter to the Board dated January 5, 2005 , I have been contacted by Attorney Thomas Burack, who represents Sailer & Hale.  One important piece of information which he imparted was that his clients installed a water well on the subject site last year, which would afford the best means of determining whether any contaminants from the former Dump site can be detected on the subject property.  He believes the well is a bedrock well of approximately 200 ft. depth.  To the end that a resolution to the issues might be effected upon your hearing tomorrow evening, Mr. Burrock has submitted the enclosed Stipulation for consideration:  it summarizes the history of the dump use and closure; it would be recorded in the Registry of Deeds as a permanent record of the prior history of the Dump; and it imposes the condition that the test of the well water be sufficient under applicable drinking water standards to justify the issuance of a residential building permit by the Selectmen.  The one exception seems to be with respect to trace elements of MTBE – although it is my understanding that there exist drinking water standards for that element as well.  Recent reports of MTBE detection in Rockingham County suggest that the trace elements seem higher in deep water wells, but that even those found have been below the threshold of drinking water contamination.  I do not know if MTBE could be the result of the former Dump use.

This Stipulation was submitted as a draft at the same time it was being submitted to Sailer & Hale, and I expect to hear tomorrow if they wish to make any changes.  If so, I will communicate that to you before your meeting.  Hopefully, this may be helpful to all concerned.

Email received from Don Gartrell January 11, 2005:

Enclosed is a revised Stipulation correcting the County for the acknowledgements and adding a provision that the Board will receive a water quality report on the well test results at the time of filing an application for a building permit with the Selectmen.  At my request, the last sentence of paragraph 3 has been deleted, so that MTBE – if detected at all – will be simply one of the possible trace elements which will have to be evaluated according to the State drinking water standards.  It is my understanding that MTBE is an element used in gasoline fuels to replace lead additives, and was not even used until after the old Dump was closed.  In the unlikely event that it would be detected on the Sailer & Hale site, it would probably not have anything to do with the former Dump’s existence and would be a problem that should be addressed under the drinking water standards with regard to any potential residence to be constructed on the site. 

I hope that the proposed Stipulation allay your proper concerns about granting a special exception to permit a residential use of this commercial lot.

Don Gartrell 

Ms. Mical:  I think that Don’s letter of January 5th is important, because it says…

Ms. Thoits:  Would you please read the letter [or portions] into the record?

Letter from Don Gartrell to the ZBA dated January 5, 2005 :

[starting with the second paragraph]

His precise answers to your questions lie in the wording of the proposed stipulation that the parties might agree upon, and what is done with that stipulation…  in other words, the Devil is in the details.  In my view, the stipulation should acknowledge that Sailer & Hale know that their lot abuts the former dump; that although the history of the land surrounding the former dump reveals or suggests no contamination on or emanating from the dump site, the soils and groundwater on the Sailer & Hale property should be tested for possible contaminants; that Sailer & Hale assume responsibility to determine by such testing that their property is free of identifiable contaminants as a condition of obtaining any building permit to construct a residence thereon, and that either the Stipulation be recorded in the Registry of Deeds or that any deed conveying the subject property expressly state th4e fact – that the site is adjacent to the former municipal dump of the Town of Warner.

It is my opinion that all of those conditions are reasonable and defensible criteria upon which to base the grant of a special exception to construct a residence on the commercial lot.  They do not shift the ultimate liability for contaminants caused by the use of the dup to a subsequent owner of adjoining property, nor do they require such an owner to absolve the Town from an undefined, unknown liability imposed by law on the Town.

In the event that a satisfactory stipulation cannot be reached, the Board may deny the special exception with the adequate reason, which should be expressed in terms of the applicable tests for granting a special exception.

Ms. Mical:  I think it’s important that – I realize that it says “or” – but I believe that both the stipulation should be recorded in the Registry of Deeds and that any deed conveying subject property should state the fact that the site is adjacent to a former municipal dump.

Mr. Howe:  That isn’t the stipulation that I have from Don.

Ms. Mical:  This is a letter from January 5th.  It is referring to the stipulation that you have in your hand.

Mr. Howe:  But isn’t this the one that he came to?

Ms. Mical:  No, this was written by Mr. Sailer and Mr. Hale’s lawyer.  And Don has read it, and this is what he said – “the Devil is in the details.”

Mr. Hale:  May I interject?  The stipulation was drafted by our attorney, and editorial changes at the request of your Town attorney were taken into account and they both came to an agreement on the stipulation that you have in front of you now.  It does require signatures of us and the Chairman of the Town of Warner Zoning Board of Adjustment, as indicated on page 2 of 3, and as far as being recorded with the Deed…

Ms. Mical:  That’s the letter that he wrote to us.

Ms. Hinnendael:  You have the original?

Ms. Thoits:  I assume I do.

Ms. Mical:  Do you all have the letter from Don?

The Board:  Yes.

Ms. Mical:  OK.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I think that the only thing – when we approved this application…

Mr. Howe:  The Stipulation is agreed to by Don.

Ms. Mical:  But he also is saying in his letter of January 5th that he recommends that these things be done.

Mr. Howe:  But this says it is the revised Stipulation.

Ms. Mical:  Yes, it does.  But I didn’t see where it addressed, in the Stipulation, those two things.

Mr. Howe:  Well, I think that they negotiated this, or that is my understanding.  Why are we going back to the 5th of January?

Ms. Mical:  Because…

Mr. Howe:  Is this not by Town Counsel by the 11th?  Does this not supersede what he did on the 5th?

Ms. Mical:  No, it doesn’t supersede.  It goes with. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  I’m going back to the original – is this the negotiated one, between the lawyers?

Mr. Howe:  That is correct.

Ms. Mical:  Yes.

Ms. Hinnendael:  I think that if Town Counsel has reviewed this and approved it, the one thing remaining from the approval from the approval of their building was to get a stipulation that they know that they’re located next to the Town dump.

Ms. Thoits:  And isn’t it also in the Stipulation that they have to test the water?

Ms. Mical:  Yes.

Ms. Hinnendael:  So this is the Stipulation that our Town Counsel negotiated for us…

Mr. Howe:  Where does she get this sh__?

Ms. Hinnendael:  … for us, with their lawyer.  It’s done, and Don is recommending that we can approve this because we’re the ones that raised it, and we got the stipulation that we wanted.  So I move that we sign the Stipulation and move on. 

Mr. Howe:  And I second it.

Ms. Mical:  Because the stipulation does not say that they even have to record this at the Registry of Deeds, the next person that they sell this to will not even know that there is a dump next to it.

Mr. Hale:  If I may, we are required by New Hampshire state law to disclose everything we know about the property.

Ms. Mical:  Yes, I know that you’re supposed to.

Mr. Sailer:  We will.

Mr. Hale:  Well, I’d rather not have my integrity challenged, number one.  Number two, the Stipulation has a place that says that “the foregoing has been acknowledged before me to be registered…”  and that’s why there are all of those signature blocks and places for stamps.  So at great expense and time, we have fulfilled the requests of this Board and your Town Counsel and our expensive attorney have come to an agreement on this and that’s where we sit today with this before you now.

Ms. Hinnendael:  And that’s why I moved that we sign it.

The Board and the Secretary had different copies of the Stipulation, so Joanne read one copy and the Secretary reviewed the copy believed to be the original to make sure they were the same.  They were, with the exception of the date of the January meeting of the ZBA.

Ms. Mical:  In reading that, I didn’t see where this says that it needs to be registered.

Mr. Hale:  That’s what all of the signatures are for at the end.

Ms. Mical and the Secretary:  Those are just the places for the notary to witness the signature of Mr. Hale, Mr. Sailer and the Chairman of the ZBA.

Mr. Hale:  That was what I was told – that the signatures at the bottom were for the registration – by my attorney, and the Town’s attorney knows that our intent it to have the document registered.

Ms. Mical:  It doesn’t say on here that it needs to be registered.

Ms. Hinnendael:  What I just read was faxed by Don on January 11th.  Maybe that was part of the negotiation.

Ms. Mical:  But that’s absolutely crazy on our part not to require it to be registered.

Mr. Hale:  The fact that we’re even doing this is almost a moot point.  I understand why we were asked to do this in the first place, but as indicated in the stipulation, the town never officially documented the closure of that landfill.

Ms. Mical:  It’s not a landfill; that’s why.

Mr. Hale:  Landfill, dump – the state refers to it as both.  The town never officially recorded the closure of the site to the state of New Hampshire .  That’s number one.  Number two:  even if the town did record it and even if there was groundwater contamination, there is no law or rationale that would require us as per the original meeting that took place here to sign a Waiver of Liability that would grant the Town any sort of Waiver of Liability even if that site were found to be contaminated.  As of today, we don’t even know that because the water is still at the state being tested.  The state ends up having some sort of fund to help the town clean up if there is a problem with this well.  I don’t have any problem if you want to include in the minutes that in addition to us doing everything that we have done that we present a copy of the recorded Stipulation – giving an informational copy back to you – at the time that we supply the Board of Selectmen’s office with the water test results that we also provide them with a copy of the recorded Stipulation, if that would please the Board.  At that point of time, we could receive the building permit and we could proceed with our project.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Do you have to file something with the Special Exception with the Registry of Deeds?

Ms. Mical:  No.

Ms. Hinnendael:  Right, so why can’t we file this ourselves?

Secretary:  I go there for the Planning Board anyway.

Ms. Hinnendael:  So he’s just saying that either the Stipulation can be recorded at the Registry of Deeds, which we can do, or that the conveying of subject property, etc.  So if we take the Stipulation…

Ms. Mical:  As long as it is an original copy.  You have to record an original copy.

It was discussed and decided that two copies would be signed and notarized at the Town Clerk’s office, after which the Secretary would record the document with the Merrimack County Registry of Deeds.  All agreed.

Ms. Mical made a motion to have the Secretary record the Stipulation at the Merrimack County Registry of Deeds.  Ms. Joss seconded the motion.

Ms. Joss:  Where does this leave them in getting the Variance?

Ms. Mical:  They already have it.  Then they get their Building Permit, after giving the results of the water test to the Selectmen.

The motion was voted on and passed by a unanimous vote.

   VIII.            Communications & Miscellaneous

·         Ms. Thoits announced a Land Resource Management Workshop being given by the DES.

·         Office of Energy Planning is having a seminar in April, and Ms. Thoits read the announcement card received in case anyone wishes to attend.

·         Alice Chamberlin has resigned as an alternate member of the Zoning Board.  Ms. Thoits asked the Board to submit names of possible new alternates for appointment by the Selectmen.  Ms. Mical asked the Board to think about names and to submit them at the next meeting.

·         Ms. Mical:  I would like to point out that the definition of Home Occupation on the Use Table in the Zoning Ordinance says, “Home Occupation not involving the on lot full time employment of persons not dwelling in the home.”  That’s where I got that information.  There is a discrepancy in the zoning ordinance. 

Ms. Hinnendael:  How can we correct that?

Secretary:  It’s like the wording in the sign ordinance, which is being put before the voters this March as a proposed change to make the sign ordinance and the Site Plan Regulations match.  I guess I need to let the Planning Board know about the discrepancy so that they can correct it for 2006. 

Ms. Thoits:  Yes, because they need to match.

·         The Board confirmed that Ms. Thoits and Ms. Mical are scheduled to meet with the Budget committee on Monday, January 24th at 7:00 p.m.

      IX.                Adjourn

A motion was made and seconded to adjourn.  The motion passed.  The meeting was adjourned at 9:20 PM .

Minutes approved: