Minutes of the Meeting and Public
Hearing
Wednesday, June 12, 2002
7:00 PM
Warner Town Hall, Lower Meeting Room
Members
Present: MarthaThoits, Martha
Mical, Kenneth Klinedinst, John Wallace
Members Late: Martha
Latuch (7:15)
Members Absent: None
Alternates Present: Eve
Joss
Alternates Absent: Joanne
Hinnendael
Presiding: Martha
Thoits
Recording: Sissy
Brown
I.
Open Meeting at 7:00 PM
II.
Roll Call
III.
Approval of the Minutes of the May 8, 2002 Zoning
Board of Adjustment Meeting
A
motion was made and seconded to approve
the minutes of the April 10, 2002 ZBA Meeting as corrected. The motion passed with a unanimous vote.
IV.
Case #02-02:
Variance
AMERICAN TOWER CORP., 116 Huntington Avenue, 10th Floor, Boston,
MA 02116, requests a Variance to the terms of Section 1003.01 (f) of the
Wireless Telecommunication Facilities Ordinance to build a monopine
telecommunications tower to a height of 119’.
[Received: ZBA approval of a Special Exception (11/14/01) and Planning Board
approval of Site Plan for a 109’ camouflaged monopine tower (3/04/02)]
Carrie Fitzsimons, Project Manager,
American Tower
Charles Schwartz, Verizon
representative, and Jared Robinson, Verizon RF Engineer
Ms.
Fitzsimons said that the first issue is the procedural issue that came up at
the previous meeting regarding the change in the Variance application and the
amendment of their original application for a Special Exception. Their attorney sent a letter to the Town of
Warner and hoped to get a response from the Town’s attorney. They were informed that what they needed to
do was actually make an application to amend the Special Exception. She said that she would put it in writing
and submit that, asking to amend their original application to ask for “+/- 5
feet”, which would allow the tower to go to 114 feet.
The
second issue for this meeting is to present additional RF testimony from
Verizon. She said that the Board could
vote on the acceptance of the request to amend the original application, and
then it could be noticed for a Public Hearing for the July ZBA meeting.
Ms.
Thoits said that she wanted to be sure of what the applicant was wanting to
do.
Ms.
Fitzsimons: “We have an approval on the
table for a Special Exception that was granted by this Board – to build a 109’
structure based on that 20 feet above tree cover regulation. What we would like to do tonight is submit,
in writing, a request to amend that original Special Exception to say that the tree
cover is 89 feet, +/- five feet, which would allow us to go to a height of 114
feet, ultimately. The Board would then
vote on whether or not to accept that request and then, hopefully, notice the
Public Hearing. I think that the
concern with your Town Counsel is that there be adequate public notice.”
Ms.
Thoits: “Right. We have to have another Public Hearing. That’s what I was trying to figure out.”
Jared
Robinson, RF Engineer for Verizon Wireless, showed propagation maps and
presented information. He stated that
the proposed 94-foot height [if the original application can be amended] would
cover a large section of I-89, and showed the Board the area that the tower
would cover.
Alternate
sites that were considered were discussed, and Mr. Robinson explained why they
wouldn’t work for their coverage needs.
The Hopkinton site does not cover the required area.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: When you say the coverage
areas, could you give us some Exit numbers so that we can know the areas being
discussed?”
Answer: Mr.
Robinson pointed out the areas on the map that he was discussing.
Mr.
Robinson: “The Kearsarge tower is off
of this map, but as you can see by the coverage – it generates coverage in this
general area, but it doesn’t get down to this area [being described] of the
map. So Mt. Kearsarge wouldn’t be a
viable option to cover this particular stretch of I-89. If the original application weren’t amended
to show the height of an additional 5 feet, we would be forced to go to 89
feet, and this height wouldn’t cover the area of I-89 that the extra 5 feet
would allow. The Board also asked to
see the coverage from the IWO tower that was recently approved. As you can see, the IWO tower does cover
some sections of 89, but it does not really get all of the way down to Exit 8
based on the height that we would be getting on the site. This tower will definitely be looked at
further to fill this search area, but at first glance, it doesn’t look like it
will be usable for Verizon and we will be looking for something else – and I’m
told that there are some other towers in this general area.
Ms.
Mical: I think they’re talking about
the MCT tower on Kearsarge Mtn. Road.
Mr.
Robinson: All of those candidates would
be looked into for this second search area.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Would you be able to
testify to the public at the next hearing as to what you have told the Board
tonight?
Answer: Mr.
Robinson: Yes.
He
was asked to bring maps that he didn’t have with him at this meeting.
Ms.
Fitzsimons presented to the Board an amendment to the original application of
2001.
Ms.
Mical said that the only question she had was whether the tower [on North Road]
would work for coverage at the other end of town, and stated that she thinks Mr.
Robinson had already answered that it might and it might not.
Question: Ms.
Mical: Why is it that people that
currently have Verizon cell phones can drive the entire distance [of I-89] and
not have a problem getting service?
Answer: Mr. Schwartz: These maps show our guaranteed coverage – we
guarantee that we cover all of these areas.
How this works is that the more phone calls that you have talking to a
cell tower, the smaller that tower’s coverage area is. So you could be in a spot at 3:00 in the afternoon
and not have a problem. If you were to
be in that same spot during rush hour, like at 5:30 pm., you wouldn’t be able
to make a call. As the cell increases
and decreases in traffic, the coverage rate increases and decreases in
proportion.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: What time of day are your
maps based on?
Answer: Mr. Robinson: The maps aren’t based on an exact time of
day. They’re based on the actual
traffic loads of these sites.
Typically, it would be a busy time.
Statistically, between 5 – 6:00 p.m. on a Friday night. Worse case scenario.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: So if we’re looking at
these maps at 2:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning….
Answer: Mr. Robinson: You’re going to get a lot more calls, just
because it is so much quieter and there is less traffic, so more coverage. That’s just the way the technology works.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Correct me if I’m wrong,
but the high-speed data network and the signal level that is going to be
required…
Answer: Mr. Robinson: That’s a whole other issue that all of the
different carriers are still trying to figure out – how high speed data is
going to affect our coverage area.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: Would it be correct that we’d need a better signal to carry that
data network?
Answer: Mr. Robinson: Correct, because what’s going to happen is a
data user will access the network and he will be taking up resources that would
normally go to voice use, and vice versa.
Data uses a wider band that voice.
Verizon is currently commercially deployed with wireless data and there
aren’t a lot of users, for us to get an idea of how it is going to affect the
network – we don’t expect that information until the end of this year.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: These are users that surf the
internet with their cell phones?
Answer: Mr. Robinson: Exactly.
Question: Ms.
Thoits: If we had not gone this route,
and had stuck with the Variance and went to the 119 feet – would you have had a
larger propagation if you had been at a higher height at the original tower? Would it have gone farther down 89?
Answer: Mr. Robinson: Yes
Question: Ms.
Thoits: So by shortening the tower from
119 feet to 114 feet, you’re shortening your distance?
Answer: Mr. Robinson: Correct.
Coverage is basically made up of a few key points: The antenna type in terms of how wide it is
electrically, and how much gain it brings to the equation. The height of the antenna, which is in
direct proportion to the amount of coverage we have. And also the amount of power -- we are restricted by the FCC on
the amount of power we can have.
Mr. Schwartz: If I could add –
after we’re done with this process, whatever hole is left there – it’s going to
be my job to figure out how to fill that and I’ll be back to see you again when
I figure out what that resolution is going to be.
Question: Secretary: The amendment was to the original
application that went through the ZBA and the Planning Board. This [request for an amendment] refers to
Case 02-02, which is the application asking for a Variance.
Answer: Ms. Fitzsimons: That was from the Agenda – it should be
changed to the original Case number.
Question: Secretary: You need to state specifically what it is
that you want to do, because that is what I will use to notice the Public
Hearing.
Answer: Ms. Fitzsimons: We’ll rewrite the amendment.
Ms. Mical made a motion to accept the amendment to the original
Special Exception application of 2001 [Case #13-01], to state that the tree
cover in the surrounding area is 89 feet, +/- five feet, which would allow a
total tower height of 114 feet, and to set the Public Hearing for a the July
10, 2002 meeting of the Zoning Board of Adjustment. The motion was seconded and passed by a unanimous vote.
Mary Lamenzo, P.O. Box 126, Warner, NH 03278, requests a Variance as provided in
Article XVII, Section (B) of the Town of Warner Zoning Ordinance for
construction of a ground floor bedroom as an addition to the existing house,
and construction of a garage connected to the house addition. Property located on Kearsarge Mtn. Road,
Warner, NH 03278, Lot 38, Map 18, R3 and OC1 Zoning.
Ms. Thoits stated that she hadn’t specified who was
voting at this meeting, because when the meeting started, there was a total of
only five members and alternates present.
She stated that now that all of the regular Board members were present,
they would be the voting members: Ms.
Thoits, Ms. Mical, Mr. Klinedinst, Mr. Wallace and Ms. Latuch.
Ms. Thoits told Ms. Lamenzo that she needed to make
her presentation of the project, and also to tell the Board how she meets the
five criteria stated in the Zoning Ordinance for a Variance.
1.
She
stated that there would be no diminution in the value of surrounding
properties, and that she had contacted her neighbors. She said that she hadn’t personally contacted Magdalen College,
but felt that if they had any problem with the project they would have a
representative at the meeting.
2.
She
said that her home is a very private matter, and that the addition wouldn’t be
contrary to the public interest and wouldn’t have any outcry because of the
addition to the house.
3.
Denial
would be a hardship to the owner seeking it – Ms. Lamenzo has had builders up
to the house and feels that the house’s zoning originally required a 40’
setback instead of the current 50’ setback.
The house was built on that basis.
The nature of the septic system requires the addition to be located as
proposed. The home is a passive solar
home, and requires southern exposure to get the heat from the sun. The wellhead and pipes are on the north
side. These things left the east side
of the house. She would like to have a
bedroom on the first floor.
4.
Granting
the variance would mean that substantial justice would be done. Ms. Lamenzo feels that this would be
true. She feels that the addition
wouldn’t be innocuous in any way.
5.
The
use must not be contrary to the spirit of the ordinance. Ms. Lamenzo said that she doesn’t think that
it is. It isn’t being done to be
contrary in any way to what the Town has set forth as its rules.
Ms. Lamenzo stated that her builder had made the
measurements for the addition being presented to the Board. Mr. Klinedinst said that the Variance only
affects the garage, and only a couple of feet of the bedroom. She stated that the road curves – if it were
straight, there wouldn’t be a problem with the setback requirements. She said that the construction will be very
simple and will fit the neighborhood. The
garage is required because of snowstorms and her inability to shovel the snow. She has been parking her car in a neighbor’s
driveway during storms, and twice people plowing snow in the driveway have hit
the car.
Ms. Thoits closed the Board meeting and opened the
Public Hearing.
There were no comments from the Public
The Public Hearing was closed and the Board meeting
reopened.
Ms. Mical said that she feels that it is taking the
setback from 50 feet to 35 feet from the road, but that is still a significant
distance from the road and it won’t be creating a problem for snow plows,
etc. Ms. Thoits said that it would
still be maintaining a good landscaping buffer, so the addition wouldn’t be
really visible from the road.
Question: Mr.
Wallace: Do you feel that the 14 feet
for the bedroom addition is wide enough?
Answer: Ms.
Lamenzo: It is a pretty good size
room. I have taken surveying tape and
measured it and have been very careful about the measurements. I’m comfortable with the numbers.
Mr. Klinedinst made a motion to grant the
variance regarding the building setback on Kearsarge Mtn. Road to allow for a
decrease in the setback distance from 50 feet to 35 feet on the north corner of
the addition and to 38 feet on the south corner. The motion was seconded by Ms. Latuch, and passed by a
unanimous vote.
Jean Louise Collins and William
Crannell, 20
Burnt Hill Court, Warner, NH 03278, request a Special Exception as provided in
Article XVII, Section (C) of the Town of Warner Zoning Ordinance to construct
an apartment on the second floor of an existing single family house. Property located at 20 Burnt Hill Court, Warner, NH
03278, Map 10, Lot 89-1, R1 Zoning.
Ms. Collins stated that the creation of the apartment would be for a caretaker and possible future income. She stated that R1 zoning would allow a two-family structure to be built, but that the one-family dwelling is already in existence and would require a Special Exception. She doesn’t feel that it will be a burden to the neighborhood because they are now down to a one-car family. The co-owner of the home doesn’t drive, and she needs someone to live in the house. She wants to put in a kitchen in the apartment because of privacy – not having to share a kitchen.
Question: Mr.
Latuch: Why does she need a Variance or
a Special Exception?
Answer: Ms. Mical: Because the ordinance says that to convert a house to
multi-family, a Special Exception is required.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Would the one-bedroom
apartment be equipped with a bathroom and a kitchen?
Answer: Ms.
Collins: It already has a bathroom.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Your septic system was
designed for that additional bathroom?
Answer: Ms.
Mical: Septic systems are designed for
the number of bedrooms, not bathrooms.
Ms. Collins: There are four unused bedrooms in the house – it was designed for a big family.
Ms. Mical:
She’s not changing the number of bedrooms in the house – she is using an
existing bedroom and converting it.
Ms. Collins:
The added kitchen could, conceivably, be torn out if someone wanted to
go back to a single-family house.
Question: Ms.
Joss: Does the entrance to that
apartment area exist now?
Answer: Yes.
Question: Ms.
Mical: Is this apartment going to take
up the whole upstairs?
Answer: No. It is an upstairs, front room that has a bath
– it is now being used as my computer room.
It would be just a one-bedroom, and I would only want one person.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: Are you going to have a shared
entrance?
Answer: Ms.
Collins: It is a separate entrance.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: There are three doorways that
look like they come in and out of that room.
Answer: Ms.
Collins: There is a hallway and then a
stairway down to the front door. The
kitchen will be over our existing kitchen.
The stairs are here. This is a
closet. This is a door to the attic.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: So this is the one door in and
out of that room?
Answer: Ms.
Collins: Yes. To go down and outside, you’d go down a flight of stairs and into
our kitchen for a fire escape. But down
the hall, there is a private stairway going in and out of the hall.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: So, for example and for
whatever reason you need to rent it now – five years from now the circumstances
might be different and you might want to rent it to someone and you might not
want the tenant intermingling within your private living space. Is there going to be a locked door, or the
potential for a locked door?
Answer: Ms.
Collins: I hope I wouldn’t have to feel
that I had to lock the door.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: And I’m not suggesting that you
would. But when you’re talking about
access… We’re talking about allowing
you to have a two-family residence, then you need to assume access. It depends on the kind of person that you
would be renting to. I’m wondering the
difference between calling it an apartment and just remodeling a bedroom – if
it doesn’t have a locked, separate access.
Answer: Ms. Mical: The kitchen makes it an apartment.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: But what if I had a wet-bar in
my basement?
Answer: Ms.
Collins: I know people that do that –
they just put in a microwave and a refrigerator, and the person uses the
bathroom sink to wash dishes and things.
Ms. Latuch: And I’m just looking at the potential for two exits, depending on who you have living there.
Ms. Thoits closed the Board Meeting and opened the
Public Hearing.
Abutters:
Question: John
Morcom: Does a Special Exception go
with the land or the people owning the land?
If she were to move, would the Special Exception still be in place?
Answer: Ms.
Mical: My understanding is that Variances go with the land, and Special
Exceptions go with the owner. But if
you put an extra kitchen – there could be a letter sent to a new owner stating
that they need to apply for another Special Exception. Chances are it would never be denied – but
that’s my own personal thought process.
If it’s there, and family number two comes in and they wish to rent it
as an apartment, I cannot see a Board saying, “You have to take that kitchen
out and you can’t rent it.”
Question: Mr.
Morcom: Would they have to be expected
to have that rental unit be a one-bedroom rental unit? Would they need a Special Exception again to
do that – to say it’s not the one bedroom that was requested, but it is now
more than that?
Answer: Ms.
Latuch: It’s not even so much that, but
it’s the enforcement. Who’s going to
enforce that? The Zoning Board can
stipulate tonight that the Special Exception is only for that studio
apartment. But seven years from now,
I’m not going to go banging on someone’s door to make sure.
Question: Abutter: By
saying that they are going to rent the apartment, doesn’t that become a
business?
Answer: Ms.
Thoits: No, it wouldn’t be a business,
but just a two-family house, which is acceptable by Special Exception. If we grant this, we’re saying that she can
have a two-family residence there. Even
if it were, it would be a home business, and that would be acceptable, too.
Mr. Klinedinst:
We could stipulate that if the property is sold, that Special Exception
is not valid.
Question: Mr.
Morcom: That would help. I also have another question. If they were to move to smaller quarters,
would they need another Special Exception to rent the first floor of that
house?
Question: Ms.
Mical: Like if they switched and moved
into the apartment?
Question: No, if they
moved to another location. Would they
need a Special Exception to do that?
Answer: Mr.
Klinedinst: No. Ms. Mical: They could rent the house today.
Question: Mr.
Morcom: There is the potential that we
could be living next to a two-family rental apartment?
Answer: Yes.
Question: Shawn
Economidis: I don’t have a problem with
having someone there, if it is a health issue.
My attitude, as far as rental income – when I moved into the area, I assumed
from the appearances of the houses, etc., and from what the Realtors and local
people told me, that it was a family neighborhood. A one-bedroom apartment doesn’t bother me, but I like the privacy
and I wouldn’t want it to go beyond a two-family. That’s my concern. I just
bought this home three months ago, and I have no intention of moving. My wife and kids are happy here. But I can tell you that this happened three
months after moving in – purchasing this home, how I felt when I looked at it –
it is still quite fresh in my mind – I can tell you that had I been told (say
that it is a year down the road) that this was an apartment house, I would have
had second thoughts on the purchase because 1) it is a lot of money, and 2) we
like our privacy. We’ve been here three
months and have nice neighbors, etc. –
just as long as it stays that way and it stays a two-family unit, I don’t have
an issue. I would have some concern,
now that I’m hearing the Board address the situation of if they should sell, what
would become of it. My concern is if
she should sell the house, what would become of it? What if someone bought it with an interest in rental property,
and cut it into three or four units?
That’s a lot more than I’d bargained for. If I were to sell this place, I would hesitate to buy it if there
were an apartment house next to it. So
what happens if I had to sell and relocate – I would be concerned with what
someone would pay me for this residence because there is an apartment building
next to it.
Answer: Ms.
Thoits: I don’t think you have to worry
about it ever becoming an apartment house with a lot of apartments. That couldn’t happen without another Special
Exception, and I’m not even sure that is even permitted.
Ms. Mical: It is, with another Special Exception – to be more than two apartments.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: That’s why I was even wondering
why it is even considered an apartment, versus – like a refrigerator in my
bedroom and sink in my bedroom. That
doesn’t make it an apartment. And that’s
why I was asking about a locked door, if you’re going to have a separate
entrance and a separate thing. She
doesn’t need a Special Exception to modify a room – it’s already currently a
bedroom, it’s already planned for in the septic system.
Answer: Ms.
Mical: The reason she came was because
she’s taking a one-family house --- and we decided to err on the side of
caution and go with it being converted – because of the conversion to a
two-family.
Ms.
Latuch: I could very feasibly rent out
a bedroom in my house and I don’t think there should be any issue with that –
just renting to my friends.
Ms.
Mical: There isn’t – but they would
have to share your kitchen.
Ms.
Thoits: Legally, you can’t put in a
kitchen or do anything like that to that bedroom.
Ms.
Latuch: I could put a refrigerator in
there; I could put a sink in any room I want, as far as I’m concerned. That’s what I’m saying. By not giving her a Special Exception – I’m
wondering…. I’m looking for a
definition.
Ms.
Collins: Excuse me – It’s really important to me how the neighbors feel about
this. I don’t want to do anything to upset them and this is to find out how
people feel about it. I’ll go either
way. It’s not adversarial – I just want
to find out.
Ms. Latuch:
If I were your neighbor – you seem very nice and it seems like if your
neighbors didn’t like you, I think that they would probably be standing up and
screaming much like we’ve seen in the past, from other neighbors. I think there are bigger concerns – not from
what you’re going to do, but from what future owners might do. And that’s being realistic. If you’re not given a Special Exception – if
you don’t need a Special Exception – then there’s no concern about what the
rights of future owners are or what they might do. Do you see what I’m saying?
Ms. Mical:
But then, you’ve still got the set up there. That’s more hazardous. By
giving her a Special Exception and restricting it to her, I think that the
neighbors have more protection -- if we give the Special Exception to her and
restrict it to a one-bedroom apartment, period. And then, if the next guy comes along – 1) he’s going to need a
Special Exception, and 2) if he goes to 2 bedrooms, he is going to have to tell
us and he’s going to need another Special Exception for that.
Ms. Latuch:
I’m just curious – as far as the tax cards go – to give the neighbors
any sense of peace of mind. Let’s just
assume for a second that you sell the house and someone buys it and they go,
“Neat, here we go.” They don’t come
down to the Town; they’re probably sent a letter. As far as enforcing that – does anybody, when they go up to
reassess the house for taxes – is there any way of checks and balances to catch
that? They ignore the letter they get
when someone new buys the house and decides to knock down a wall and make it a
3-bedroom apartment. Do you see what
I’m saying? There are seven cars in the
driveway – what’s going on?
Ms. Thoits:
There’s nothing stopping the neighbors from calling and
complaining.
Mr. Economidis: That’s the concern I have.
If I wanted to have a small studio apartment in my home for a family
member, or for whatever reason… If she
had to sell the house for whatever reason, the value of her house would go up
because there’s a potential for generating income, and it would only demoralize
mine in value because now I have this gorgeous Colonial next to an apartment
house.
Ms. Mical: But
the only thing is, by law, she and her Realtor, that’s representing her in
selling this property, must disclose to the prospective buyer that it is not a
viable apartment because the Special Exception was limited to her alone.
Ms. Latuch:
So you would have legal rights to pursue, if that wasn’t adhered to.
Mr. Economidis:
Then that’s fine. I just hope
that you understand my concern.
Mr. Klinedinst:
If the Board were to grant the Special Exception, with the Special
Exception terminating at the time you sold the property, that may lower your
potential selling price.
Ms. Collins:
Given what Ms. Latuch has just said, I wouldn’t go to a huge expense to
build a gorgeous kitchen if it is going to have to be torn out when the house
is sold. In getting this Special
Exception, I would just put in something that is simple.
Ms. Latuch:
There are neat little 7 or 8-foot sections that are one unit that just
go right in and can be removed.
Ms. Klinedinst:
You would also have the option – if you were to sell it – to have your
potential buyer and ask for another Special Exception. The neighbors would be notified.
Peter Darling:
I would just like the Special Exception to be one that would have to be
reapplied for by a new owner.
Ms. Mical made a motion to approve the Special Exception for a one-bedroom apartment to
be created at 20 Burnt Hill Court. This
Special Exception is to apply to Jean Louise Collins and William Crannell only
and it will be discontinued at the time of the sale of the property by
them. The motion was seconded by Mr. Wallace.
Mr. Klinedinst asked if the house was still in both
names. Ms. Mical stated that she didn’t
want to word the motion in such a way that might cause a hardship if one or the
other party should pass away – Ms. Collins said that the wording was acceptable
to her.
A vote was
taken and the motion was
passed by a unanimous vote.
John and Lynn Tracy, 338 East Rt. 103, Warner, NH
03278, request a Special Exception as provided in Article XVII, Section (C) of
the Town of Warner Zoning Ordinance to build a single family dwelling on a
commercially zoned lot located on North Road, Map 14, Lot 18, C1 Zoning. Alexander and Beatrice Rukowicz, property owners.
Ms. Tracy stated that they have signed a Purchase
and Sale Agreement to purchase the North Road property. One of the stipulations to the agreement is
that a single family home can be built on the property. She noted that she had a letter of
authorization from the owners to speak on their behalf at the Board meeting.
Ms. Tracy stated that the lot is in an area of other
homes, and that building a home on the property would do nothing to diminish
the value of abutting properties.
Question: Ms.
Thoits: Where is Lot 17, and is that
where the Town’s dump used to be?
Answer: Ms.
Mical: The old dump is on one side of the lot in question, and Ginger Marsh’s
house is on the other.
Question: Ms.
Thoits: How big is the lot?
Answer: Ms.
Tracy: One of the issues when we signed
the Purchase and Sale Agreement – we asked if they would do a perk test, we
asked if they would get this Special Exception, and the third thing was to have
the property surveyed. John and I are
in the process of having a surveying company do the survey and they agreed to
stop at a certain dollar amount because we weren’t sure we would be granted the
Special Exception and we didn’t want to invest a huge amount of money on a
piece of property that we couldn’t ever build a house on, and the owners
weren’t willing to split the survey cost.
The guess is that the lot is between 3 and 6 acres.
Mr. Tracy: The property
description says that it has 811 feet on the road side, the south side has 346
feet, and the north side has 374 feet.
Ms. Thoits said that she just wanted to be sure that the lot was big enough for a house and that they wouldn’t have to come back with any setback issues, etc.
Ms. Mical: This lot has numerous problems. One is the bounds of it. What they didn’t show is that about halfway through this lot – the distance of the road frontage -- there is a doted line on the tax map, which means that there is the possibility of a boundary that nobody really knows about. But even if it ended up that they didn’t own what we now represent as Lot 18, that lot is big enough to hold a house and meet all of the setbacks.
Question: Ms. Latuch: The access to the house would be off of North Road? The driveway and all of that?
Answer: Ms. Tracy: Yes.
Question: Ms. Latuch: The questionable side of the lot is which side?
Answer: Mr. Tracy: The south side.
Question: Ms. Latuch: So if there was a questionable part of this lot that you didn’t know, it would be the south side on the northern portion of it?
Answer: Ms. Tracy: Closer to the Marsh’s.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: So the Town of Warner owns Lot 17, if I have this right, and they want to put in an all-night facility to grind sand or rock, you’re not going to have a problem with it, right?
Question: Ms. Mical: You do have to realize that it is a commercial district all around you.
Answer: Mr. and Mrs. Tracy: Yes
Ms. Latuch: With our new Police Station, we might need a new jail and they might put all the rowdy folks down there in the new jail.
Mr. Klinedinst: The Market Basket might decide to stay open 24-hours and they might be loading and unloading trucks at the back at 2 a.m. in the morning… I’m sure you’ve thought of all of this?
Answer: Yes, we have.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: On the other side, let’s say that 20-years down the road you might decide to retire and sell the house. Could this property revert back to commercial?
Answer: Ms. Mical: It doesn’t actually change. We would grant them a Special Exception to build a home in a commercial zone.
Mr. Klinedinst: Someone who wanted to put a business there could offer you quite a bit of money for your property.
Ms. Mical: They could sell the house to Market Basket or Joe’s Bowling Alley, and the buyer could convert the house into a bowling alley, for example.
Ms. Latuch: I don’t know if you remember from the previous case, but the Special Exception goes with the applicant. But it doesn’t mean that you’d have to level your house if you sell it, because you’re selling the house and the land. If someone wanted to turn the house into a Bed and Breakfast, they wouldn’t have to come before the Board.
Ms. Mical: The old dump is probably never going to be developed – that’s a nightmare in and of itself.
Ms. Tracy: That was one of our concerns – radioactive water. But I think we’re far enough away from that.
Ms. Thoits closed the Board Meeting and opened the Public Hearing.
There were no abutters or others making any comments. The Public Hearing was closed and the Board Meeting was reopened.
Ms. Latuch made a motion to grant the Special Exception for John and Lynn Tracy to build a
single-family residence on a C1 Zoned lot:
Map 14, Lot 18, in Warner, NH 03278.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Wallace and passed with a unanimous vote.
Ms. Tracy asked which zoning setback regulations as stated in the Zoning Ordinance would be referenced in building the house. Ms. Latuch said that they would use C1, because the zoning wouldn’t be changed. Ms. Mical said that technically, they would be C1. But she said that she would recommend using the R2 setbacks, because they are more restrictive. Ms. Tracy said that C1 and R2 have the same setbacks from abutting properties, but that the setback from the road is farther in R2. She agreed that they would use the R2 regulations.
Harvey and Helena Caldwell, Harvey
Caldwell RV Mover, 844 Route 103 East, Warner, NH
Ms. Caldwell said that when they lived in
Hillsborough they had moved trailers.
Moving RVs requires a transporter plate that is attached to the RV being
moved. They moved from Hillsborough and
her husband opened a business in Henniker.
At that business they also have a dealer plate. The State of New Hampshire won’t allow them
to have a dealer plate and transporter plate from the business in
Henniker. Because of this, they have to
use their home address for the transporter license plate. They moved to 844 Route 103 East. When she went to get the transporter plate
in March, the person at the State saw Warner as the new address, and said that
she had to fill out a form and the form has to be sent to the Town of Warner to
make sure that they will accept and allow transporter plates at their residence
in Warner. Ms. Caldwell said that the
trailers aren’t left at the residence.
Her husband moves the RVs. For
example, if someone wanted their RV moved to a campground, the trailer would be
brought to the house and the transporter plate would be put on the trailer, and
he would continue on his way to the destination. The trailers wouldn’t be left at the house, but would be – if
necessary – left at the business in Henniker.
The only thing that is necessary is the transporter plate.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: What type of trailers are you
moving?
Answer: Ms.
Caldwell: 5th wheels and
others.
Question: Ms.
Mical: Why don’t you just use the
plates that are already on the trailers?
Answer: Ms.
Caldwell: Sometimes, a person will call
and want a trailer moved – and the trailer might not be registered.
Ms. Latuch: Or they sell it. If I sell it to you, you may not necessarily want it – you’re not going to buy it sight unseen and then transport it. It’s just like dealer plates – if you have a car that’s sitting in the back yard…
Ms. Caldwell: The transporter plate has to be put on the
trailer that is being moved.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: I’m
missing something here. Why is the
Board involved?
Question: Ms. Thoits: I agree. Why isn’t this something that the Selectmen
could have signed?
Answer: Ms. Mical:
Because the form asks if they meet all of the Zoning Ordinances of the
Town. The form states that, “Applicant
whose name appears in the above section complies with local ordinances and
requirements or has a Variance to operate.”
The answer is actually “no” because they’ve never come in for anything
through the Selectmen’s office, as far as I know, as any type of business or
home occupation. The address given here
is an apartment building in Davisville.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: So this
is a preliminary?
Question: Ms.
Latuch: When they asked you for your
address, they asked you for your home address, and you happened to have moved
from Hillsborough to Warner, and your business is in Hillsborough?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: The business is in Henniker.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: It was in Hillsborough? Then you stayed living in Hillsborough and
moved the business to Henniker?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Yes.
Ms. Thoits: She’s saying that she can’t have a dealer
plate and a transporter plate in the same town.
Question: Ms. Latuch: So what happened
when you lived in Hillsborough and the business was in Hillsborough?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: We worked in Hillsborough for 25 years. We didn’t have a problem at that time.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: So if you’d happened to put the
business address down instead of the Warner address, you’d be talking to the
Hillsborough ZBA?
Answer: Ms. Thoits: No, because the business is in Henniker.
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: You see,
they won’t let us use the dealer and transporter plates from the Henniker
address.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: I don’t understand what we
can do with this form at this time, with the format. You’re essentially running a business out or your home,
right? Your husband has a truck that
moves these trailers, and the plate goes on the trailer that he tows, and he
goes and gets the trailer and puts the plate on it, and he may park it there
overnight?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: He
might or he might leave it right at the business in Henniker.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Forget Henniker for a minute. He brings it to Warner and he’s going to
leave it there overnight because he’s leaving the next day for a distant land.
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Right.
Question: Ms. Latuch: You’d have
one trailer, right? You don’t have
seven or eight trailers?
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: And you
have one vehicle that tows the trailer?
And one plate?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Yes.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: OK. I’m looking at this and it makes a lot more sense. Moving people’s vehicles for hire. I’d venture to guess that a lot of this is
either to repair or repossess.
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: What it is…
Question: Ms.
Latuch: – so sitting in your driveway
in Warner is going to be something to repair, or if it’s a repossession, they
want it.
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Mainly what my husband does is just move people. People call up and want to move from one
campground to another. Calls are like,
“Would you move our trailer from Boston to up to Mile Away Campground?” So my husband would have to go to Boston,
pick the trailer up and move it into the campground.
Question: Ms.
Latuch: Is this something that you have
to renew every year? If for some
reason, you were slightly abusive or, for the sake of discussion, you started
having all sorts of RV’s and there was something the Town was just not happy
with, I would assume there would be some way we could call the State and say,
“I’m sorry, this is not working out.”
Answer: Ms.
Mical: No, there’s not. What they’re asking for is for the Zoning
Board to check the box “yes” and sign the form.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst asked about the portion of the form relating to signage and which
refers to a specific RSA, and he asked what RSA that was. Ms. Thoits said that she probably doesn’t
have a sign. Ms. Mical said that it
probably refers to the type of sign that indicates that the vehicle is carrying
flammable materials, etc.
Answer: Ms.
Caldwell: Every year, I get forms for
the dealer plate and the transporter plate.
I fill out the information and receive stickers to update the plates.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: My concern is that your
husband might come home on a Friday night and the trailer sits at the residence
over a holiday weekend or something, and the neighbors are going to be upset
because you’re running a business out of your home. I’d think you would have to go for a Variance to operate the
business.
Answer: Ms.
Caldwell: Before I came tonight, I
talked to my landlord. We also have to
have the DOT come out there to make sure that it complies. But the landlord said that it is fine.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: What is
the zoning there?
Answer: Ms. Mical: I think it is
R2, but I know that it’s not commercial.
Mr. Klinedinst:
I see it as running a business out of your home. Ms. Mical:
I agree. It is running a
business out of someone else’s home.
Mr. Klinedinst:
If I had a tow truck, for example, and I was at your residence. If I get a call to tow a vehicle in the
middle of the night, and I come back with the car in back of my truck because
it isn’t going to the garage until tomorrow – that’s how I see the activity
that you’re doing. Depending on the
zoning in the area where you live, I think you need to apply for a Variance so
that you can do this. You’ve seen the
process earlier tonight – your neighbors provide input to the Board. I don’t know what else we can do. I don’t think we can sign this form.
Ms. Mical: I
have a problem with it complying with local ordinances because, to my
knowledge, nothing has been received from them asking to operate a business at
that address in the Selectmen’s office, either as a Home Business – which would
be easiest thing to go through but then you would definitely need a letter from
the landlord saying that she agrees to do the Home Business.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: Do you
have one of these forms filled out from Hillsborough?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell. No.
Ms. Caldwell stated that her husband had been
working for another company there, and had started moving trailers for a car
dealership. Then he started his own
business.
Ms. Mical said that the RSA on signage is telling the Board the Ms. Caldwell can apply for a number that would cover all vehicles run by her business.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: For clarification: The towing truck has dealer plates on it –
the Caldwell’s are dealers in Henniker.
The Transporter plate goes on the trailer. Why not get the transporter plates for the dealership?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell. Because the
State won’t allow it because we’re “for hire.”
Question: Ms.
Mical: Why can’t you list the address
of your RV transport business as the same address as your dealership?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: I tried it
– but you can’t have two businesses at the same address.
Question: Ms.
Mical: She has a physical address in
Henniker, because the dealership is there.
I understand why they wouldn’t let her get a transporter plate under the
dealership’s name. Because it’s a
business, I assume you’re registered with the State of NH for your transporter
business…
Question: Ms. Latuch: Where does
the state think you run these businesses – both from the same address?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: No. When I sent this in, I was told that I
couldn’t.
Question: Ms. Latuch: The two
businesses are probably registered separately?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Right.
Question: Ms. Latuch: So the
transporter business – where does the state believe the transporter business is
located?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: They
thought it was still in Hillsborough – until I went in to get the renewal on
the plate.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Is it conceivable that your
husband could get a call at night from someone who’s RV is stranded?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: No. He won’t go out at night.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: I understand, but looking at
it as if you were to apply for Variance, or a Special Exception or whatever
would fit the bill here – I’m thinking of what you’d have to contend with
regarding the neighbors. You say you
don’t run the business at night, but it’s conceivable that you could?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: What he
would do – he wouldn’t bring it to the house.
He would bring it to the business.
Question: Mr.
Klinedinst: Not with the type of rules
you apply to yourselves. But is
conceivable that with that type of business, a vehicle could be brought to your
house at 2 in the morning?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: Yes.
Answer: Ms. Mical: As far as the
State of NH is saying, that type of business could do that.
Mr. Klinedinst: I understand now why they say, “comply with local ordinances or requirements or have a Variance to operate.” They’re trying to protect the area where you live from this type of operation. Maybe you don’t [have activity at late hours], but some people do.
Question: Ms. Thoits: It would seem that this is a Home Business. And you’ve not registered with the Town of Warner as a Home Business?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: No
Ms. Latuch: She can’t, by definition. She’s not the owner of the property.
Ms. Thoits: How does that work? The ordinance says that she has to be the owner. The landlord would have to OK it – but then, the landlord wouldn’t be living in the house.
Ms. Mical: The landlord does live in that particular house.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: Do you receive these calls at the house?
Answer: Ms. Caldwell: My husband takes the calls in Henniker, but when he leaves the business at night he forwards the phones to his cell phone.
Question: Mr. Klinedinst: So in the spirit of things, he does get the calls at home.
Question: Ms. Latuch: And there’s no way, at all, if we went and signed this thing and thought that everything was dandy, that we could put a screeching halt to this next year when so and so gets upset…
Answer: Mr. Klinedinst: I don’t think we can sign it.
Question: Ms. Latuch: I’m just asking for the sake of discussion.
Answer: Ms. Mical: I don’t believe we will receive another one of these next year. Unless this is a new form, this is only our second one. The other was for an inspection station to be for a the new owner of an auto repair business.
Mr. Klinedinst: We wouldn’t sign this, anyway. The Selectmen would.
Ms. Mical: No, we would because the ZBA would state that the zoning ordinances were met, etc.
Mr. Klinedinst: But we don’t have an application to refer to, such as a Special Exception or Variance.
Ms. Latuch: I agree. The Selectmen would sign it, but they would put in an application for a Home Business. I would think that we shouldn’t sign it because they don’t have a Home Business.
Mr. Wallace: I would think that Judy [Town Clerk] could sign it.
Secretary: She’s the one that gave it to us.
Ms. Mical: It says, “Please refer this letter to the appropriate individual or board in the municipality so that we may receive your Town or City’s assistance in this matter.”
Ms. Thoits: The Selectmen approves the Home Business applications.
Ms. Mical: If they got the Home Business, then she would meet the zoning regulations of this town.
Ms. Thoits: And then the Selectmen could sign this form when they sign the Home Occupation application and send it on. But I think she needs to fill out an application for a Home Business and probably has to have the permission of the homeowner.
IX.
Communications and Miscellaneous
Joint Work Session with the Planning
Board and the Zoning Board members
The secretary stated that the Planning Board would like to schedule a Joint Work Session with the members of the Zoning Board, and asked for suggested dates. The meeting should be a separate date from regularly scheduled meetings, and will be noticed for the Public. It was stated that the reason was so the two Boards could discuss and understand each other’s understanding of and interpretation of the ordinances, etc.
The dates suggested were July 9th or July
11th @ 7:00 p.m. or September 14th @ 8:30 a.m. The secretary will contact the Planning
Board chairmen to decide on the date for the meeting, and then send
notifications to the members of both Boards.
X.
Adjourn
A motion was made and seconded to
adjourn. The motion passed. The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 PM.
Minutes approved: July 10, 2002